The Draconian Path and Witchcraft


#1

This thread is designed to discuss the parallels between the Draconian Path as elaborated on by Kurtis Joseph in his recent BALG video and ideas inherent within witchcraft; particularly witchcraft of the more traditional variety. For a convenience, here is the link to the video;

In the video, Kurtis Joseph argues for the needs for a more wholistic view of magic; one that embraces both wings of the Dragon; the primordial Tiamat; the Demiurgos (or Orphic Phanes; who is a composite figure of serpent and sun). Thus, as a consequence, both right hand and left hand path methodologies are not to be shunned, but rather, embraced such that the sorcerer may ascend on the back of the double winged dragon.

It is refreshing for a BALG author to articulate these insights in a predominately left hand path forum and organisation. These ideas are not new; they can be traced back to the methodologies practiced by past and present practitioners of witchcraft in Cornwall where the roles of cunning man / wise woman and black witch were often conflated in the single practitioner. These folk were and are expected to bless and curse, heal and blast according to the need of the community and the client (and of course, their own personal needs). And whilst allying themselves with the Devil, they would also use magic involving invocations of the christian trinity and the psalms in their practice. Why? Because they found that such methods worked; traditional witchcraft being, above all, a practical path. Such practitioners in Cornwall were said to follow “double ways”. This is why Eliphas Levi’s Sabbatic goat icon is of considerable importance in traditional witchcraft; the Baphomet figure unites both light and dark, and other polarities within a single, Draconian symbol.

To be honest, I have not followed Kurtis’ work, but this video, with it’s potent realisations, made me sit up and take note of what he was saying and as a consequence, I will be following his work much more closely.


Shiva & Shakti in Draconian Magick?
Actual History Of Angels?
#2

You will then like this message from the Illuminati


#3

I just am not sure how to take this stuff. EA said similar things a long time ago, about having your time in darkness and then in the light. I still am of the belief you don’t need to pick both for balance. If you truly transcend duality within your respective path, I believe you will be able to see the darkness in light and the light in darkness.

Also, the RHP and LHP have to two different end goals. I’ll never understand how one can be “ambidextrous”. You can be on the LHP and work with angels, or the RHP and work with demons. It’s not about what entities you work with or how much baneful magic you do. The RHP leads to one thing: unity with a higher power and giving your power up to what you see as a higher force. LHP leads to infinite potentiality: the actualization of divine potential and the choice to be and do whatever you want as according to your will. I don’t see them as opposite. They go in completely different directions with completely different mindsets and goals.


#4

There comes a point in the right hand path, when the practitioner realises that he / she is the very divine power that he / she is trying to unite with. The Law of Thelema: “Do what thou will shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law, Love under Will” becomes an act of surrender to the god within. And it is in this that the differentiation between left hand path and right hand path becomes ambiguous.


#5

@Warlock
Examples of RHP ideology would be Theosophy, Hinduism, Taoism, Hermeticism, etc. They all surrender to a higher power, whether it be Divine Providence or the Source, or whatever. Thelema as you describe it is different in that it requires surrender to the god within. The ambiguity doesn’t lie in RHP vs LHP, but within Thelema itself. One can choose to believe that the god within is also the Source, or some aspect of it. Thus surrender to the god within would be a surrender to the god without (RHP). Or, one can choose to believe the god within is a separate divinity with its own will. One that you can take control of as you ascend. Thus, the surrender to the god within is apotheosis (LHP).

In my idea of what the LHP is, I believe that the god within is in a state of becoming. I can change it, while at the same time approaching godhood in the flesh. Thus, I would never surrender to any part of myself. I instead take control of my own divinity and write my own destiny.


#6

But perhaps to surrender is to take control. Perhaps the act of surrender and mastery are not mutually exclusive categories. Hegel had the insight that every “presence” contains its “absence”, every thesis contains with itself its own antithesis. The master in the master / slave relationship is not the one who rules; the master being dependent upon the slave. Jacques Derrida took this insight even further and pointed out that every(signifier) symbol contains within itself its opposite. He used the Greek word “pharmakon” as an example; in one context it can mean medicine, in another it can mean poison. How one reads the text based upon the interpretation of this one word results in radically different understandings of the same text.

Such it is with “left” and “right” hand paths. Whose “left” and whose “right”? Which perspective are you looking and interpreting from? Are you looking from underneath the dragon? Or are you looking at it from above?


#7

Amazing that two threads about the same topic are running concurrently. This is what @C.Kendall wrote 15 hours ago on the LHP vs RHP thread.

"I am neither right hand nor left hand …
In Lucifers own words (Pulling this from my journal).
“ He who works with one hand, whether it be left or right, will gradually achieve however, he who uses both will perform miracles for a structure built with one hand will never compare to the structure built with both hands “.
In the words of my spiritual father
“ If one embraces the light only the light will blind him, if one embraces the darkness only he will loose sight of his surroundings, so you see my son, embrace both the light and the dark, for only fools split the path of power into two directions “.


#8

@Warlock

I do agree with this. I was thinking on what I wrote about not surrendering to any part of myself, and realized the implicit contradiction. At the end of the day, we must surrender our ego built by the everyday mundane consciousness to a higher one within the Self. It is impossible to make progress without surrender of some kind. Even in meditation, we surrender our physical senses to our spiritual senses; our intellect to some higher faculty.

The problem from my perspective is once again, I only see the light as a limiting direction, whereas darkness as limitless. Darkness is that from which all comes, and in which all exists. Light is just a manifestation of potentiality. At some point, there is a limit to how far one can explore that which is already revealed. I’m reminded of a Bible verse:

“What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.”
– Ecclesiastes 1:9 (NIV)

There’s a reason magick is an occult science.

All this being said:

Obviously, this is true. But it depends on perspective. I only consider myself LHP because it’s easy to convey. In truth, I don’t see darkness and light as equal, and I only think of RHP and LHP as ideologies. I think the main point to take away from this is that you should not be afraid to call upon powers or delve into opposing ideologies if they can help you reach your goals.


#9

I see it similar.
Perhaps trying to find a way to open the box of “The Light” would be a better way to approach it?


#10

@Alita
I think so. I’m kind of debating this myself, tbh. I’ve ecently been having thoughts of using angelic incantations to help with the infernal stuff I’m doing, and learning more about the angels. At the end of the day, I do think it’s worth exploring what’s in the box just for familiarity and expansion of awareness and consciousness. And if it helps me achieve my goals quicker, I’m all for it.


#11

This is a part of the difference between polarity and duality. With polarity you explore both the light and the dark. The darkness being the potential while the limits light becoming the expression of this potential.

Where as with duality it has to be an “either/or” answer, with polarity it is a “this and that” answer.

Within the path of smoke for example the zanda is the focal point for light in the work as the ahriman and the divs are devoid of light.


#12

I’ve been thinking of doing similar or even using psalms.


#13

I really like this polarity vs duality thing. I guess that’s what I’m getting at. I don’t see light and dark as a duality, but as a polarity. But I still see light as limited.

I’m also interested in what you said about the Path of Smoke. I’m making a new topic so I don’t derail this one, lol.


split this topic #14

21 posts were merged into an existing topic: Actual History Of Angels?


#15

The thing is to exist in this plane we need limits and boundaries to distinguish self from that which is not self. Regardless if your view has darkness or light as the source of limitless. If you were to aim to become that limitless you would eventually have to surrender all that you know as self as it would be destroyed upon entering the infinite. Simply because the limited self cannot experience and survive the infinite as it is burned up in the process. In ita place the spiritual/infinite self would be all that remains.

The myth of odin is a good example of this.


#16

@Dinmiatus
I made a topic here to discuss the path of smoke. I’d like to hear your thoughts on it :slight_smile:.


#37

Now I’ve watched the video, since I commented I should probably respond directly.
I’m not drawn to the draconian imagery though I agree with point made with the two wings analogy, but I agree the dualism has been limiting and in a lot of ways painful, I was never a fan to be honest. There’s murmurings in the new age communities about Triality, but they seem to be talking about becoming aware of the godself, so, same as ascension maybe.

I’m not clear what “traditional witchcraft” is. I’m guessing not Wicca? I consider myself of the old blood, of cunningfolk and a bit of selkie stock. Witchcraft of this sort is a mix of working with deity, seasons, winds, fae, herbs and basic healing with herbs, spirit help and headology. A Granny Weatherwax kind of witch.

I’m not sure there was much discussion of ascension among hedgewitches and cunningfolk at all? I can’t think of any examples of the lore covering the development of abilities, self-deification or what happens to a witch when they die. I’m currently reading Witcha: A book of Cunning by Nathaniel Harris, and Sorgitzak: Old Forest Craft by Veronica Cummer, I’ll have to keep an eye out.

Or maybe I’m barking up the wrong tree?


#38

From what I’ve seen and heard from those calling themselves Traditional Witches, this is basically it. There is one who openly works with Lucifer I’ve seen but I don’t know if that’s a common thing or if they are more polytheistic.

The Black Toad by Gemma Gary is supposed to be about Traditional Witchcraft. It was recommended to me and it’s really interesting.


#39

Not quite. I am in a family line of Scots Irish traditional witchcraft. We focus on the Devil (not as a god but as a standard bearer against Christianity and other dogmatic belief systems: an ideal of freedom and spirit of life if that is easier to conceptualise. As spirit of life - what St Paul calls “the god of this world” - it embodies in itself all that life has to offer: light and dark, male and female, solvet et coagula, of which the Sabbatic Goat image of Eliphas Levi is the pre eminent icon. We also work with the ancestors, the “gentry” and the familiar spirit. Our magic reflects this complexity: we bless and curse, hex and heal. We have no gods. We are both atheist and animist and yet we can call upon the magic of multiple belief systems (including Christianity) if neccessary to “get the job done” which is why you’ll find Gemma Gary’s “the black toad” full of invocations using the psalms and christian prayer.


#40

The goal of RHP as in merger is complete and final cessation of separation of that perceived ego-self & entire self-identity back into formlessness, this is why Boddhisatvas who choose to remain separated and incarnate (or on the spiritual planes) having attained the ability to merge formlessly are considered to be making a personal sacrifice, the state of separation per se is considered to be a source of suffering (and often, based in an illusion).

  • There is no mastery to retain because nothing will be perceived as being external to the self/Self merger, to BE mastered; nothing exists outside of this. Nor will any desire/aversion, like/dislike, or other dualities of any kind exist.

The Vaishnavite sect within Hinduism (including Hare Kirshna sect most recently) do not generally believe this merger will be total and final, they believe in a more “heaven-like” construct of a separate experience whilst still bathing in and aligned perfectly with the Divine.

I just feel a need as someone who studied this extensively, lived it and walked it for years, to clarify this, to be honest the modern tendency to go “oh yeah bruh all paths are really samey don’t do labels lol it’s all the same thing” are totally ignorant as in, not aware of the practical intentions and often, the effects, of practicing many RHP concepts, specifically that of “detachment” from the world, renouncing the world especially, and ceasing to attach oneself to both the outcomes and manifest forms (including people, concepts of love and personal preferences, etc).

The effects of embarking on a route to RENOUNCE ATTACHMENT to the world are that the world will obey and renounce you back far harder, it will take a while to begin and even longer to stop, so this is a really fucking important thing and almost no-one gets it because they have these muddle-headed newage concepts that nothing is really there and so anything you do will fit any definition you give it, when in reality there is a reason we call this metaPHYSICS - as with the science of physics, certain principles exist in a manner all the wishful thinking in the world cannot stop.

And if you think I’m talking out my ass, you can easily prove me wrong by pouring some barbeque fuel on your foot and setting it alight - if you can quench the flames through thought alone and not even make your skin slightly reddened by this, you are probably able to also defy the principles of metaphysics.

If not, you’re not, simple as that. :man_shrugging:

(If a person’s intended meaning when they say LHP is solely “grr demons and gonna be a bit selfish to grab what I want more of check my badassery” then yes of course that’s on the exact same continuum of personal desire etc as “RHP ftw I only work with angels and be holy to create what I want more of” - both of these are also commonly used and deserve to be debunked IMO. Both rely upon perceived desire/aversion, like/dislike, etc.)

And don’t set your fucking feet on fire. Really. :fire: