Things our society has lost or forgotten: could true magick be one?

I used to be cynical about the ideas that come up, in the myths and in books like New Avatar Power for example, that times existed when humans had greater powers and yet they got lost - basing my paradigm on the era that started in about 1850 in the west, the scientific era where everything’s logged and noted, and “progress” is almost always “forwards” I found it hard to credit that people would let something so amazing slip away.

Then I started following the discovery that in the past, nobody slept for 8 hours a night, and nobody slept continuously - and, they even had well-established and known routines and expectations for the waking period that they EXPECTED to happen after an initial 3 or 4 hours of sleep.

You can read more about that story here on the BBC, and the core of it is that endless amounts of literary evidence, plus the experience of pre-indisitrialised tribal people living today, show that segmented sleep is NATURAL for us all, and only fell out of favour in the era when indoors lighting and an industrialised working pattern were imposed on us all.

So, score 1 for humans being idiots and forgetting natural stuff - doubly so because the need to sleep 8-hours solid has led to unknown prescriptions for knockout drugs, and for a lot of people, disruption of a body-mandated sleep rhythm leads directly to clinical depression, which is then also treated with a rake of pharmaceuticals, which then create side-effects that need their own treatment, etc… I actually know someone very well who ended his 20 year dependence on sleeping pills (to “cure” him of his pesky night-time waking) when he saw this information!

The idea of getting home, sleeping early then waking in the night has implications for our sex lives as well, which often fall apart when people let the pressures of work get in the way, chilling in front of TV because they’re too tired to make love yet have no concept of sleeping now, to wake later on, and that loss of intimacy underlies a lot of divorces, infidelity and general unhappiness, even fertility levels could be affected by this… the implications of this single act of social amnesia are staggering.

Act 2 of “what have we forgotten?” comes about from my investigation of cutting out all gluten containing foods - gluten is a protein that occurs in wheat, barley, rye, and related species of cereals, and it’s a mainstay of the post-agriculutural diet.

I found that cutting this out made me physically healthier in almost too many ways to count (my hair and nails grew stronger than they’d ever been is just one striking example) and the depression I’ve suffered from off and on for a lifetime - that kinda went.

Just, blew out the window and this was within a couple of months of meticulously eliminating gluten, but I felt much better within a single week.

I’d been brought up believing wheat, especially the whole-grain type, was a HEALTHY food, a positive thing to eat that would really make you thrive, yet my experience says otherwise in a very noticeable way (and so does that of millions of others globally - sub-clinical gluten intolerance causes a range of minor symptoms, and even things that don’t seem like “symptoms” at all - for example, I just assumed I had weak nails and quite brittle hair, and would never have sought out help for this).

Then I started to read about the possible harm the agricultural grain-based diet has been wreaking on us all, to a greater or lesser extent, and that made me wonder - did we trade in optimal health for these more reliably available calories?

Did the first humans to live off farmed grain notice a fall-back in their physical and emotional/psychological health, and is that the cause of some of the stories of a “golden time” when man lived as one with nature, not farming it (and then having the new necessities of total war, to defend the hard-earned harvests and granaries)?

Anyway here’s some well-researched stuff about how ALL grains have the potential for harm, I would encourage everyone to at least have a read, I used to be up with the majority that believes “I avoid wheat” was “I’m so precious” bullshit until I tried it myself, so I wish I’d kept more of an open mind, and I can only suggest anyone here might want to do the same?

There are some 60 years of research that directly link consumption of wheat to schizophenia, which you also won’t find in your morning breakfast cereal box: the research was triggered when the illness went in to remission for the mass of people when bread was less available during parts of WW2, and, most tellingly, there are reports of spontaneous remission in patients who stopped eating bread - the main source of gluten in the past, before pastas and breakfast cereals were promoted as healthy for us all…

So, to summarise, if we’ve actually as a society forgotten how to SLEEP in a healthful way that allowed for a whole period of quiet contemplation, sexuality, and creativity - if we’ve forgotten how to EAT food that doesn’t drive us crazy or insidiously wreck our ability to digest nutrients and build our bodies to their optimal health - what the hell else have we forgotten?!

I’m not so ready to dimiss the “In days of yore, the wonder-workers could fly, and men lived as gods” stuff any more, because right now someone’s popping a pill to cure something that was never an illness in the first place - just a case of collective ignorance and social amnesia.


This is…just too awesome for words.


I second the notion.


You heard of the ketogenic diet, or nutritional ketosis


Yes, I’m not sure I could sustain it though. I really like green veg and I wouldn’t want to have to be too careful if I wanted to eat a few extra carrots, onions, or whatever - I follow the “primal blueprint” these days.

Do you follow this? I’m curious to know whether using ketone bodies as your main “brain food” in place of glucose has had any effect on your psychic senses? (If you don’t mind me asking!)

I kept meaning to post that question over on one of the low-carber forums, but muggles be crazy sometimes if you ask how their diet’s affecting their ability to schmooze with demonkind! :wink:


fluor ?

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And don’t forget about table sugar (sucrose) and high fructose corn syrup.


and what about polluted air we breath every second ? can we do something about that ?


I’m gonna bookmark this. Some extremely helpful information here. Thanks for sharing Lady eva!


I only started it recently began it and have yet to become keto adapted. I think it will have a positive effect for the same reason it can help with brain function(increase in noradrenaline/norepinephrine levels in brain and blood which definitely helps with ADHD)… only time will tell.


Thanks for the positive comments folks!

You’ve probably already heard how “In the past, people believed the earth was flat” is modern hokum, but, just in case, here’s a timeline:

Please keep us posted how it goes! I really did wonder about this change, probably one of the largest changes to the brain’s “biosphere” possible and would love to hear whether you find it helps or whatever, I wonder whether the value of fasting isn’t (partly, I mean aside from the willpower/attachment etc. stuff) that it forces the body to burn fats instead of recently ingested carbs, and if there’s a kick over to ketone bodies, and you notice any differences, would really love to hear your experiences please.


More stuff related to the topic of what was passed along as “mythology,” and which later turned out to be true:

Research findings back up Aboriginal legend on origin of Central Australian palm trees

The scientific world is stunned by research which backs an Aboriginal legend about how palm trees got to Central Australia.

Several years ago Tasmanian ecologist David Bowman did DNA tests on palm seeds from the outback and near Darwin.

The results led him to conclude the seeds were carried to the Central Desert by humans up to 30,000 years ago.

Professor Bowman read an Aboriginal legend recorded in 1894 by pioneering German anthropologist and missionary Carl Strehlow, which was only recently translated, describing the “gods from the north” bringing the seeds to Palm Valley.

Professor Bowman said he was amazed.

“We’re talking about a verbal tradition which had been transmitted through generations possibly for over 7,000, possibly 30,000 years,” he said.

"Just an amazing coincidence that we’d independently concluded that the seeds had been transported and then subsequently we discover an Aboriginal legend is exactly what we found scientifically.

"The concordance of the findings of a scientific study and an ancient myth is a striking example of how traditional ecological knowledge can inform and enhance scientific research.

“It suggests that Aboriginal oral traditions may have endured for up to 30,000 years, and lends further weight to the idea that some Aboriginal myths pertaining to gigantic animals may be authentic records of extinct megafauna.”

The research has been published in the Nature magazine.

PS I took up a ketogenic diet at the start of this year, with fabulous results on my mood and energy (lost a few pounds as well) - apparently ketone bodies and NOT glucose are the preferred food for the period when the brain undergoes its earliest and fastest growth period: Meat is best for growing brains.

From that article:

"There are multiple lines of evidence that an animal-based diet best supports human brain development in infants and young children.

… In a previous post, we wrote about the known (but little-spoken-of) fact that human infants are in mild ketosis all the time, especially when breastfed. In other words, ketosis is a natural, healthy state for infants. Infancy is a critical time for brain growth, so we expect that ketosis is advantageous for a growing brain. Otherwise, there would have been a selective advantage to reduced ketotis in infancy. This species-critical, rapid brain growth continues well past weaning. For that reason, we suggest in our article that weaning onto a ketogenic diet would probably be preferable to weaning away from ketosis."

Fascinating stuff.

(2019 update since I’m here editing some broken formatting, no longer doing keto but back to 50g - 100g carbs a day most days, this is relevant: Experiment Report : Sugar Loading Prior To Major Work)


I think the biggest thing the society has forgotten is being present in the moment. it makes me sad to see everyone looking down on their phones all the time walking on the street ignoring all the things happening around them,I have made it a rule for myself not to do this! in the elevator I get uncomfortable standing too close to people instead of using my mobile as a distraction I face the uncomfortable feeling, the only time I listen to music while walking, is when I go for walks in the park that also after the first 10 minutes of taking in all the beauty and nature around me. I’ve always been that person who sleeps 8 hours every night , and lately I have gotten in the habit of waking up really early which has given me lot of energy and I feel my aura has become really clear!


People have sleepwalked into letting their brains be rewired by a harmful symbiotic relationship, and it’s happened in a very short period of time:

One of the differences I’ve observed is the quest for a constant dripfeed of feelgood news (which extends across all political/social viewpoints) and the eternal quest for “likes,” if there’s not been anything that gives a little dopamine spike in the last few hours people start feeling on edge.

The damage this is doing is phenomenal:


The positive correlation between smartphone addiction and depression is alarming. Reasonable usage of smart phones is advised, especially among younger adults and less educated users who could be at higher risk of depression.

Social media:

Social media companies are deliberately addicting users to their products for financial gain, Silicon Valley insiders have told the BBC’s Panorama programme.

“It’s as if they’re taking behavioural cocaine and just sprinkling it all over your interface and that’s the thing that keeps you like coming back and back and back”, said former Mozilla and Jawbone employee Aza Raskin.

“Behind every screen on your phone, there are generally like literally a thousand engineers that have worked on this thing to try to make it maximally addicting” he added.

… “In order to get the next round of funding, in order to get your stock price up, the amount of time that people spend on your app has to go up,” he said.

“So, when you put that much pressure on that one number, you’re going to start trying to invent new ways of getting people to stay hooked.”

Lost time

A former Facebook employee made a related point.

“Social media is very similar to a slot machine,” said Sandy Parakilas, who tried to stop using the service after he left the company in 2012.

“It literally felt like I was quitting cigarettes.”

During his year and five months at Facebook, he said, others had also recognised this risk.

“There was definitely an awareness of the fact that the product was habit-forming and addictive,” he said.

“You have a business model designed to engage you and get you to basically suck as much time out of your life as possible and then selling that attention to advertisers.”

… Last year Facebook’s founding president, Sean Parker, said publicly that the company set out to consume as much user time as possible.

He claimed it was “exploiting a vulnerability in human psychology”.

“The inventors”, he said, “understood this consciously and we did it anyway.”

All part of progress though, something we need to adjust to? :thinking:

Adapt or die?

Well, the people peddling it sure don’t think so:


The tech elite in America are paying up to $40,000 a year to send their children to schools that enforce a back-to-basics approach. Danny Fortson reports on the screen-free education that has a new-age twist

Inside a concrete block at the top of a hill in San Francisco, 27 nine-year-olds are handed needles and ordered to sew. Across the hall, eight-year-olds churn butter by hand, while downstairs four-year-olds are busy carrying out their duties: sweeping up, washing dishes and dehydrating fruit.

This is not a child-labour camp in the heart of America’s richest city. It is a school, and among the tech crowd it has become much sought after. The San Francisco Waldorf School, you see, has a strict “no screens” policy. In fact, it is deliberately analogue.

Source: (paywalled)

2021 update, more on this, here:

The tech moguls who invented social media have banned their children from it

Silicon Valley parents are pulling the plug, reports Olivia Rudgard from San Francisco

Apple co-founder Steve Jobs was the first tech giant to admit, in 2011, that his own children had not used the recently released iPad created by his company, conceding that “we limit how much technology our kids use at home”. And he wasn’t alone: Microsoft founder Bill Gates set time limits on screens, banned mobile phones at the table and didn’t let his children have them until they were 14, while Mark Zuckerberg implored his baby daughter to “stop and smell the flowers” in an open letter to her which he released last year - one that made no mention of Facebook or even the internet.

… Yet it is unlikely that this will lead to a crisis of conscience, says Adam Alter, a professor of marketing at New York University and author of a recent book about technology addiction, because it would be "completely inconsistent with the duty they have to their shareholders - to maximise profits.

“For all the advantages they and their kids enjoy - from wealth to education - they don’t trust themselves or their kids to be able to resist the charms of the very products they’re promoting.” It would be “silly” to expect them to change, he says. “The best we can do is to try to uncover these hypocrisies and air them publicly.”


Bonus manipulation to drag you back in? yeah they do that too:

Your smartphone is making you stupid, antisocial and unhealthy. So why can’t you put it down?

The makers of smartphone apps rightly believe that part of the reason we’re so curious about those notifications is that people are desperately insecure and crave positive feedback with a kneejerk desperation. Matt Mayberry, who works at a California startup called Dopamine Labs, says it’s common knowledge in the industry that Instagram exploits this craving by strategically withholding “likes” from certain users. If the photo-sharing app decides you need to use the service more often, it’ll show only a fraction of the likes you’ve received on a given post at first, hoping you’ll be disappointed with your haul and check back again in a minute or two. “They’re tying in to your greatest insecurities,” Mr. Mayberry said.
Source:, my emphasis

In addition to this, the idea that to find information, one simply asks a question and has it answered in full: accurately, authoritatively, and with your best interests at heart, without the need for further research (something that drives many of us crazy on here btw) is leading some people to be completely unable to learn - something covered in this excellent article by Josephine McCarthy:

Obviously my own time contributing on this forum demonstrates I don’t think the internet is totally harmful, or a factory for making idiots, but anyone who is serious about progressing to real magick (instead of being a consumer who swallows whatever crap they’re fed by the first 3 search results) would do well to consider these trends, the staggering hypocrisy of the people running the tech giants, and the way in which human society can rapidly forget things that used to be common knowledge.



Stoked this thread got Necro’d. There’s just too much quality from older years on this forum :metal:

I used to experiment with alternative polyphasic sleep cycles. In 2011 I adapted to SPAMAYL and Uberman for periods of time. They were like a cheat code for college. A very interesting euphoria accompanied them. I have my data from a personal EEG machine I used somewhere. My brain would compress SWS and REM cycles into 20 minutes and I’d complete the whole cycle that way.

In 2013 I adapted to Dual-Core 1 which consisted of a 3 to 3.5 hour core sleep, 4 hours of wakefulness at night (crazy strong prolactin surge. Glorious for sexy times if you want your girl to walk funny the next day. You’ll both dig the feeling) and then another 90 minute core sleep around sunrise. Then I’d catch a 20 at noon

1st core to get my slow wave sleep. 2nd to get the lighter REM sleep. Then a 20min around noon to give me a boost.

The Interesting part? I was studying Biochem in school full time, working a job full time, getting established as a personal trainier and lifting very heavily all the time (kettlebells and powerlifting. Beats you up), oh and I also wrote a book… I had time for that too somehow…

I had boundless energy. I thought it was a fluke but I was killing it! People thought I was bipolar in a hypomanic phase but I was just doing a sleep experiment that gave me 5.3 hours a day and hitting a lot of goals really hard.

Ketogenic diets are “near ideal” for health and longevity. I thrive on them. I like them in cycles too (anabolism is really really hard without carbs and I like hearing things like “you’re built like Sully from Monsters Inc!”)

I do really well magickally on them. Great focus (though you could get this from exogenous ketones). I aggressively burn through fat while I’m on. No ancillary compounds or things that are less than legal required… Though 12lbs in 1 week was my record combining them.

I like a bit of carbs for athletics. I also love how I feel with a green juice once a week. There’s too many benefits to knock it though I will cycle off it for periods of time.

One grand bonus is 6 hours of sleep feels like 9 when I’m on. It’s great. I’m never hungry, never tired, and I feel like a dog when I’m around attractive women. Can’t say that’s a bad thing for either party involved… Though I’ve been late to meetings because I simply HAD to get someone’s number while I was on my way somewhere.

Lutenizing hormone -> Higher Test -> Drive goes through the roof -> Norski can’t leave without seeing if the waitress is single

Altogether I think it’s more than worth it. Keto + DC1 (a very ancestral sleep cycle combined with a siesta, another common human sleep pattern)

Seems to be a great way to cook it, my body more than agrees and my OCD symptoms drop too when I’m keto adapted

When I get back from Powell I’m definitely doing this again, I miss that feeling :metal:


That looks like a brilliant combination, as you said, so classic. Cheers for sharing! :+1:


One thing I learnt from being on this spiritual journey is to look inwards not outwards and definitely “NOT” downwards (to the phone , on social media looking for approval)!

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Well said. Thanks

You also once said

"And even though we live in an era where even the poorest ordinary person has access to more libraries, more arts, and entertainment, knowledge of health and nature, than even a King had just 500 years ago. – ( + all with just some mins of research ) "

The Internet is a medium; like a knife, fork somehow neutral, and all depends on how one can use it.
The size of your cup and what you are willing to fill into it. ( and yet even filling means nothing for some) . that’s what matters… :slight_smile:


This is very cool. I’ve been doing a fasting keto diet for last 6 months nearly religiously eating once per day. I would like to try this DC-1 sleep cycle as well. Never even considered sleep hacking like this. Only question is, can you get away without the 20 minute siesta at lunch? Or is it okay to have a 20 minute nap once the work is done for the day? (Like 5-6 pm?)


Also thanks @Lady_Eva for pulling me into this thread. (-; Additionally, I’m in full agreement in cutting out all the wheat gluten and sugar products. Has drastically changed my life, physically and mentally.