In Evocation do I absolutely NEED a chalice?

is it used for offerings possibly? My guess is so, and if that’s the case can I use an iron bowl I have that I normally burn offerings in?

But do I generally need the chalice or no?


Have you read any of the evocation related tutorials my friend? If not why don’t you take a few moments and familiarize yourself.

This is a good one. It works I’ve tried it

Here’s mine if you like.

Use a simple bowl or dish or plate or saucer for offerings if you like my friend.


I haven’t used one yet. I’m not a ceremonial magician, though.

I have used a regular glass for some offerings, when I felt I should.

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Keep things as simple as you can is my best advice to you.

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I have ordered evoking eternity, I’m super drawn to this method but idk if the chalice is absolutely necessary🤔

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Wait so the chalice is originally for offerings?

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No, is the short answer.


Thank you very much sorry to disturb you :pray:

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We are trying to give you good information, to get you to think for yourself, and make up your own mind.

Read more, start trying things and observe, find out for yourself what works for you. The rules are not based in the physical. It doesn’t matter what theatrical props you use, what matters is how they connect with your mind and how you use them.

Find a system and try it as-written, if it says use a chalice use a chalice, then experiment and try it again without, and find out for yourself. Don’t just believe what people tell you. Know for yourself because you did it.

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No, no, no, no, and fuck no.


Thanks, I just wanna make sure I’m doing things right and I don’t mess up with asmodeus

Worried I’ll upset them is all

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While it is true the chalice is not mandatory for evocation, if you are going to use the particular system of Evoking Eternity, then, yes, the chalice is actually necessary, as it serves a specific function within that system. It is to be filled with wine or blood, and charged with Omnipotence, to recharge the magician during ritual.

Just because some people don’t use a certain tool in their method of evocation does not mean that it is not necessary in the specific system that calls for one. Every system of magick has a purpose for its tools. Understand what the tool is for within the system you are practicing before you get rid of it.


Hmm, filling it with blood could end in disaster so I’ll just buy wine I suppose

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I would still suggest that you should still apply the rules if you are using a spesific system like people above me pointed out, until you start to understand what its purpose is. After that, anything can replace the material, you can even replace it with nothing.

If you are not doing a spesific system don’t even bother with a chalice. Unless it appeals to you.

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Why should Asmodeus get upset you didn’t use a chalice?

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Then you’re already doing it wrong. This attitude brings doubt into your practice, and doubt kills magick fast. Lighten up, be prepared to take risks and have it not work, if you learned something, it was successful. The magickal part here is you, first and foremost, and you’re learning a skill.

You don’t learn to swim by asking other people if your swimming shorts are the right shade of blue, do you? Jump in and start trying.


Dancing around for advice on elements of a specific system you haven’t used will just add to your confusion. Read Evoking Eternity first, so you understand the method it describes, before questioning if some element of it is unnecessary.

The book was written back in Koetting’s early days, when he practiced a more ceremonial approach, so it does require tools such as an altar, a chalice, and a double bladed dagger. Most of the members here do not practice ceremonial magick, they generally take a more free form or demonolatry approach to evocation, so they will tell you the tools aren’t necessary based only on their experience of using a method that doesn’t require them.

However, in ceremonial traditions, the tools generally serve a necessary purpose, and the system of Evoking Eternity is about as simplified as ceremonial magick gets (for example, the Golden Dawn system requires three different types of wands…)


I was reading this and this specific thought popped into my head:

No you don’t need a chalice you could use a Dixie cup if you wanted to.

So no you don’t need a chalice or fancy silver or gold cup (unless the ritual specifies you can’t substitute anything and that it has to be be a chalice).

What’s more important than what you use is how you use it (unless the particular magick you are doing species it can’t be done using substitutes for a chalice).

Specifically it’s much more important that whatever you use ceremonially is not used for mundane non-ceremonial purposes.

If it’s used for ceremony don’t use the same cup (or chalice if your using that) for drinking your morning orange juice or cup of coffee and don’t share it with others or let them drink from it. (unless the ceremony requires it) I know you wouldn’t but it had to be said anyway).

Another thought also came to mind that it’s much easier to hide the fact a Dixie cup or juice glass or coffee mug is a ceremonial tool then to hide that a chalice is a ceremonial object.

Just remember to use whatever you use only use it for magick and if by accident it does get used for mundane stuff like drinking coffee you’ll either need a new chalice or substitute chalice or you have to ceremonially cleanse it before using it for magick again because mundane use dilutes it’s … what’s the right term? Dilutes it’s power? Dilutes it vibe? Erases its dedication?

Anyways don’t use it for your morning coffee if it’s a ceremonial object and if you do then you should cleanse it and reconsecrate it before using it for magick again or replace it (yes even if it’s a Dixie cup). It’s easier to cleanse and reconsecrate if it’s say a champagne glass easier to replace if it’s a Dixie cup so you’d choose the appropriate solution if it was accidentally used for non ceremonial purposes.

Anyway, no you don’t need a chalice unless specified and the specifications are very specific like ‘you will need a silver chalice for… ‘ and even then there can be exceptions where you can substitute by necessity (because intent matters more then the materia used).

Plus, any entities you may be dealing with will probably not take offence if the substitution is of necessity. If it was a substitution from greed that’s be different (like if you had your own private ritual chamber that no one but you uses and were able to afford the silver chalice but chose a Dixie cup because it was cheaper) then they’d likely be offended.

Of course if your mind tells you you have to have a chalice, can afford it and aren’t going to have to explain why you have it then get a chalice because your subconscious and conscious thought are going to make you think and or feel that the ritual won’t work properly and you’ll be self sabotaging the ritual by substituting if it bothers you in any way at all.


Add on: To my mind it’s really not the best to use a vessel you are burning stuff in as an offering chalice in my opinion because burning is related to destruction but if you are only using it as a way to make offerings to ___ then it would be ok as long as you aren’t also doing baneful magicks with the burner j(like destroy your enemies magicks with it).

One is negative energies related (burning an effigy of an enemy) while offerings are meant as positives (like hey here’s ___thanks for…) do you see why using it for both purposes isn’t a good idea as their intents are opposites and not compatible with each other. So think through how you use and intend to use the burner before deciding to use it specifically.

Oh also probably even in circumstances where it’s ok to, you should only use it in 1 manner in a given ritual if your burning in it you probably shouldn’t or wouldn’t want to drink from it anyway in the same ritual (:thinking: woops I just swallowed some of the incense I burned with my wine)

Pls I wanna ask when you offer wine or any liquor as offering what does one do with it after the ritual dispose of it or drink it??