My sentiments exactly.
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I think this is inherent in our species. There is a tendency to classify things as equal based on our experiences. Perhaps one of the reasons for this (besides the existence of our subconscious that seeks to save brain energy by restricting the total conscious) be the fear of the different by itself.
Since any other entity “would be the same” just in other forms, therefore, they wouldn’t have to worry about learning that entity’s likes and dislikes. And with that, all fear of the unknown and the fear of new things they don’t fully know, would be gone
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Then that would be like me offering you an apple when you really want an orange, just because I like apples and my friends like apples. Though realistically, I prefer oranges.
Idk, I feel as if reducing all deities to basic archetypes is just dumb. That’s like taking real people and reducing them to stereotypes.
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You took the words out of my mouth
Word Thief
Lol
I mean, taking away a god’s individual identity is like saying everyone from a particular genre of music is just the same as the other. “You see one country singer, you’ve seen them all.” Sure, it’ll make sense to the person outside of that musical genre, but for an actual fan it would be pretty ignorant and insensitive. But the non-country fan either doesn’t care or doesn’t understand the reason why that person is upset because they only see through their perspective.
On a spiritual level, reducing gods to archetypes takes away the mystery of them and leaves as spiritually devoid of meaning.
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By that logic, reducing 7+ billion people to 12 astrological signs is also dumb. Psychology as a line of studies becomes dumb too. Karl Jung who initially presented us with that theory is probably a joke to you too?
I personally believe that nowadays there are too many people who know better what’s right and what’s wrong based on the way they do things. You mention that you ‘don’t understand’ but have yet to pose a single question, instead going on with self-righteous preaching on how such a personal and intimate thing as magic is not done correctly by others just cause you ‘feel like’ it.
The only ‘right’ way to perform magic is the one that works. Period.
If this particular system doesn’t work for you, find another one that will.
There are lots of different traditions and systems of magic in the world. We might not even be aware of the vast majority. And they perfectly exist and work regardless of your or somebody else’s personal preferences.
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I don’t believe in astrology or the Carl Jung diagram, but I do think they have a place in magick and literature/marketing. I don’t think they’re good for determining someone’s ability or character.
To me these charts seem very strange too, I think that’s a need that human beings have to “be cataloged/commanded”… I think it’s because these diagrams end up unintentionally attracting people because of psychological principles like Identification and Relief Valve. At the end they become real for reasons of the collective subconscious.
When I say that I don’t believe in them I’m talking about of not believing in their “source” (a.ka origins). I believe in YHWH, but not in his origin/narrative, because some important details are lost when perspectives are distorted. And look how interesting it is that, even though these narrative distortions happen, they’re what keep some things alive.
Some spirits in Goetia were probably gods of “pagan” civilizations, and were classified as perverse and evil creatures by religion. But it was because of this distortion that many came to know them and understand their true nature.
And I, in the same way, believe in astrology and in the theory of Carl Jung. But I don’t believe in its totality, since in Jung’s time psychology was still in its development and astrology was exactly what you said (and that I believe is true), it is a divination instrument just like the tarot (it wasn’t a Book of Life that dictated what “energies” influenced you.).
Metaphysically, when deities are linked together, whether through marriage, joining of names or some other way, it is a symbolic representation of the two forces joining together and working together.
For example, to take Amun and Ra and join them as Amun-Ra is a symbolic representation of the two Gods working in concert, as one. Amun was the hidden light, and Ra was the visible light. When you join them together, you now have the hidden and visible in unity and ultimate power. Deeper, Ra represents consciousness and Amun represents sub conscious, so it is a unifying of these two minds and the power they have, working together to create our reality…and Amun-Ra was the supreme creator of the macrocosmic reality.
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The post is about people who claim that some entities like Mercury are other forms of Lucifer or whatever entity. Basically, people saying that God Y = God X.
But I like your explanation of how the Linking Bond between entities represent.
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The Odin/Mercury link is the most wft association. Just read mythology and you realise they have so many little in common.
I believe the general idea of “The Universe is mental” or “All Is One” tend to push people to find association.
That being said, some “weird” associations exists as history proved it… Cernunnos/Mercury, Pagan goddesses mixed to the Virgin Mary, Michael/Ra, Selene/Gabriel (from the Greek Papyrus)
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I understand your stance but a concept I’d like to propose is “aspects”, the way I understand it is these entities have numerous name tags.
Now these name tags don’t discredit your personal experiences with these entities, or the way that you perceive them. One thing that I would like you to consider when it comes to different Gods/Goddesses being linked together is the fact that it’s not uncommon for them to have a number of different names that they go by.
For example Belial is an Infernal King, but after the Solomon myth which states that after his release from the brass ring that he “went out to be as Gods to the people” along with Asmodeus and Balberith.
One name for Belial is “Baccus”, which is also one of the names for Dionysus who in his own myth is said to have traveled to India with his Maenads - "Raving Ones".
Another is Abaddon who also goes by the name of “Apollyon” - which is Greek for the “Destroyer”, which is a shared name with the Greek God Apollo.
It’s my belief that the demons we work with now did evolve with the times, and in many ancient cultures not only was it not uncommon for these beings to travel but also adapt to the culture of the area they were immersing themselves in - hence my mention of name tags. It’s my belief that they adapted to the needs and even in certain cases, I’d say the perceptions of the people.
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I actually have a theory about why some gods (like these) are seen as villains (or rebels) for granting knowledge to man while others are celebrated.
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What’s the theory?
I believe this is because these entities share knowledge and abilities such as rhetoric and charisma. Unfortunately, some more strict religions prefer their adherents to remain immobile in the face of reason, dubbing the act of receiving and applying knowledge “libertinism”. That, I believe, explains the similarity between defamed entities.
What is your opinion?
"Members of this forum" people, though to be fair, most commonly it’s phrased as a question “is so-n-so this other entity” and most commonly the consensus is “nope”.
If you hang around or try the search you’ll see them, it’s a common ask.
It’s always from newbies who are armchair mages, getting way stuck in their heads who have not evoked them separately to feel the energy signature: all beings including humans have a unique energy signature that cannot be faked. It can be imitated and then it depends on your skill to tell. That’s what impostors are all about.
When you do that it’s as obvious as seeing two people in a room who is the same and who isn’t, though it’s harder to sense when you have an egregoric overlay or an incarnation and when you don’t: that can feel like a new being and it kinda is and kinda isn’t. Like, you in your car and you walking aren’t the same but yet it’s still you underneath. Likewise, you will also be able to feel when they are the same. When you can so that you can also feel when you have an impostor, that that’s a vital skill for people who evoke.
I think though, this is a different question than, “do these two guys share an archetype”. The OP isn’t about archetypes or aspects, it’s asking why people try to conflate named entities. LOTs of entities share related attributes, as do lots of people.
E.g., I’m Aquarian, so is Belial, that doesn’t mean I AM Belial, we just both agree on the values of freedom and independence.
Here is an example for Lilith, trying to conflate Lilith, a Jewish figure “female evil spirit, in medieval Hebrew folklore the first wife of Adam, from Hebrew Lilith, from Akkadian Lilitu, which is connected by folk etymology with Hebrew laylah "night.” - etymology online" with everybody from Isis to Freja to Chinese deities, who do not have matching aspects, it’s all based a mix of documentation and hearsay and… really just wishful thinking.
I have no idea why, I think it’s diminishing and reductionist not helpful. And again, doesn’t bear out in ritual, which is the material point for a practicing mage trying to get results.
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Ok, it’s going a bit South here and I’ve done some clean up… several off topic posts criticizing the posters or the style of communication in a post rather than answering the OPs question have been removed.
@mavi Please tone it down, you might not realise it but you are coming across as belligerent and argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, and without provocation since you appear to agree in principle if not in the use of language. Nobody is gaslighting or attacking you, people’s opinions are not there for you to believe and neither are yours. But you are becoming insulting and making accusations rather than debating in a civil manner, which is against the rules and is why I have removed your posts.
In the future, if anyone feels “disrespected” or attacked in a thread, please use the flag feature rather than escalating and derailing the thread.
For those who need a reminder, the OP is not at all ambiguous and no assumptions about what he means are required:
[/mod hat off]
To get back on topic, yes, this is a thing, and this is not the first time that someone has asked about why people do it either. It’s just a hard topic to search on.
It happens, the OP has noticed this, I linked an example, and that’s why he’s asking about it. He’s not a fan of the practice and that’s ok, he’s allowed his opinion.
My feeling is, based on just reading nearly every post on this forum for the last 4 ish years, if you notice WHO does this, it’s mainly the seekers: the new and the armchair scholars, and I think they’re just trying to analyse and understand the patterns before diving in. I call it “playing matchy matchy”.
In fact, I call it “matchy matchy” enough that you can use that as a search term to find more examples of this kind of question:
https://forum.becomealivinggod.com/search?q=matchy%20matchy
Another example: I said this in March 2022 in this topic:
I wouldn’t play matchy matchy and confuse things unless I was very familiar with both currents and the entities felt and told me they were the same being. Work with each current as is until you understand it on it’s own merits. Or don’t bother with the pantheon at all and just work with the entities you are naming.
They mostly seem to evolve away from it when they start practicing and getting experiential results, although some will grow into specific associations that work for them based on personal UPG and spirit communication. It’s not usually a blanket approach to all entities and all pantheons.
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Well if were talking historically and culturally the term is called Syncretism. So when one culture encountered another they would usually compare there gods to each other. So while those were initially separate they would become connected mainly because of the similarities in role and dominion. This allowed the deities to form links over time to others and sometimes even merge into new forms.
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