Closed practices?

General Discussion
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So nowadays i have seen that communities and server have been setting up a list of closed practices which need you to be Born into to practice or convert, And i think imposing this ideologies on ourselves makes you really makes us unable to practice them.

I don’t believe how weird people are So i was sharing my experience with Azazel and Lilith with others and one asked if i was Jewish , I said i wasn’t and he made me be banned from the server coz he thought I wasn’t respecting his faith and i wasn’t working with Azazel or Lilith and If i really had to work with them , I had to convert into Judaism???
But the Irony this was a server where you can share any aspect of magick be it baneful.

And even they have done written a list which almost covers all major entities and aspects religions as closed.

Its not gonna change anything for me but it is strange. WHY do you think they think that practices are closed? (I understand when it was Voodoo But Even Hinduism?, yes some aspects are closed but it doesn’t take convertion to practice them)

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I’m afraid in this case it can be a political reason, regarding cultural appropriation, which I have seen among some practitioners in the open.

But not to worry, you can practice whatever you want, without such a boundary, and this is fact. Every culture has borrowed from others. Either the West African groups borrowed Geomancy from the Arabs, or vice versa. And Lilith may in part be inspired from a concept in surrounding nations at the time. They had no issue with it, so neither should any Magician who is truly on the LHP.

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It’s not sensitive without getting too political it’s almost erasure behavior. if you think about it, but some practices are closed like when someone makes a book of a closed religion when they not part of the religion, people often confused closed religious practice with a regular open practice. Such as hoodoo and voodoo. Of course the entities involved can initiate you, but you get the point.

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Considering how much of a melting pot Cannan was, I would not be surprised at all if that was the case.

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A lot of cultures are closed because they want to maintain the truths which have worked for them, for generations, without allowing the equivalent of newage woo-woo to creep in and start watering stuff down.

Arguably the “Norse” concept of Ragnarok is just Christians seeding mortality for our gods, in order to emphasise the immortality, and therefore supremacy, of their own beliefs (2 posts I made about that, with sources, here). And the belief that the root chakra is at the feet is a rather common newage misconception based on Hindu metaphysics, something which was quite widely taught when I was first studying energy work.

Back here, I introduced the Demonic Duke Cohzier in 2016, and he’s already seeing his name changed (this does not, repeat, does not bother me, but it is an example of how rapidly things change when they are taken up widely):

The Duke asked me to share his details here knowing that it would spread his name, as well, but I wouldn’t expect people to be so chill about their ancestral heritage being idly thrown around and misused…

So to a large extent I understand and support it (for all ethnic groups), where their practices are based on folklore, shared experiences and heritage, and operated as a religion and central pillar of their culture and life.

But I also reserve the right to work with any spirit that wants to work with me as a magician, so there’s that.

If people want to keep their stuff, their ancestral and initiatory rites and so on, to themselves, why is that any less a right than the private ownership of property? No spirit is taken away from you, just because you’re not allowed into some inner or hereditary circle.

Just my thoughts. :smiley:

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I never heard about this :thinking: My grandma was a reiki adept, and we had a whole board of diagrams of chakras but never saw the root at the feet. My teacher at school said that the feet are very the energy goes to ground, and bad energy leaves so you should never point your feet over someone, especially over their head. I understand that you’ve already learned this but it made me curious so I’m just mentioning this​:sweat_smile:

I never knew there were some parts of Hinduism that are closed either! This is all very new to me, moreso because I’m unlearning and learning about my own culture. Could you please elaborate on this?

I also agree with what the others have said-about certain practices being closed to prevent other elements from seeping in, but I’ve also read that it’s because those practices or deities have a lot of historical significance.

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The specific example hit a little home with me, which lead to a more fiery response than appropriate. So, I will refrain my response to that example alone as I am a member of that group of people.

The longest barrier set to separate the Jews and those who were not in terms of tradition was the language. Anyone who has tried to read Biblical Hebrew using just the Alephabet will find it is difficult to read as there is no vowels used. It was originally written for those who were already familiar with the language verbally, not those outside of the communities. However, I find that the permission was granted long ago when the vowel system was created and Hebrew became something anyone willing to put in the time allowed to learn, as a big part of the culture revolves around text along with family traditions that are influenced by the surrounding culture of their region of the world. Not to mention Lilith is not really a spirit that is really accepted in Judaism as I have observed (there were quite a few amulets to ward her in particular). Azazel is debatable as his mentioning of being a spirit is (as far as I am aware) only mentioned in the books excluded from the Torah, and even then is also rejected. To me, getting offended that someone works with/worships them while not being jewish makes as much sense to me as it would for a Christian to be offended by someone worshipping Satan because they are not a Christian. It boggles my mind a bit.

Ultimately though, my opinion should not dictate your actions. It’s your life and I do not “own” any of it. All I own is my own reflections on the words and stories. It is a culture that has been built through the years with the exchange of ideas between many different people (including some very colorful arguements amongst each other if one reads the Zohar for example). I would not be shocked if historically people did work with these beings, or beings like them, at some point as the need to reject them arose while ironically preserving them within the pages at the same time. There is no point in establishing a taboo if it was not done at some point in history. It is something I have always found to be curious.

I would like to note that part of the reason this specific example flared me up is because I have witnessed it being said to individuals who are not jewish by those who are also not and did not realize my own background. It is something I have seen too often, which ultimately puts me in a position of being misrepresented and have to fight to speak for the sake of protecting “my culture”. It is very annoying to be in. I don’t know if the said individual fit that category but if they did, I am sorry you experienced that.

Ultimately, I would say that when faced with things like “you should not do this because you are not this” and it bothers you, the wisest course is to try to find someone (ideally multiple individuals) from the group and talk about it. Not only does it clear the air of any possible misconceptions but it gives the individual an opportunity to speak for themselves about something they hold dear. Take everything with a grain of salt, just like everything else.

But ultimately, you will have to make decisions on your own as to where you go from there

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Shakta Hinduism I think has more of this, the Vaishnava and devotional streams far less so.

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Ever heard of aghori’s , It is really hard to get initiated by very experiences Aghori’s you need to earn their trust and Shakta hinduism is already covered @Lady_Eva

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To an extent this is also the culture on Discord, easy bans when you offend a mod, I find most servers to have this level of emotionality in the moderation. Mods that can’t keep their own rules are common. That’s really on that person rather than it being a closed practice to work with info from what’s only the most printed book in the world.

I think there’s a difference between following a philosophy, working with the entities in a religion, and adopting a religion. Religion is about power and control over others - it’s always the humans that want to control the story, the entities just want to connect. I respect the latter but not the former.

If you want to keep a secret, fine, then don’t tell anyone, that’s your right, whatever, don’t talk to me.
But don’t be shocked if other people do tell and want to expand on the ideas creatively, that’s their right too. That’s why the Catholics didn’t even translate mass from Latin for their own followers at first - an ignorant population are easier to control.

I think there’s room for both, and people do this and just use different labels to make a distinction.

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I’ve heard about them yes, but never really delved too deep to know more. I did a quick search after Lady Eva mentioned Shakta/Shakti, and it also seems pretty Tantric like parts of Shaivism (almost anything related to Shiva I come across is Tantric at some points). Shakta-the Goddess (Parvati) and Aghoris- the God (Shiva).

I think Aghoris need initiation because they interact with the dead very frequently, a form of necromancy maybe?

I have something new to learn about, thank you and @Lady_Eva for telling me about this!:purple_heart:

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I’m guessing that deterring mentally ill people, and psychopaths who just want to eat human flesh for kicks, is a very important factor there. :thinking:

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shakta or shakti is mostly regared to as feminine aspect of shiva or Feminine power is considered in high regard but it isn’t as fierce and tantric as Aghoris.

They worship Shiva’s “Aghor” Avatar one of the most destructive form of him. They eat flesh from dead bodies, They perform some very dark rituals but only with dead bodies and this can be related to practice with any suffix attached to Necro-. You can say they work with the death current. IDK any more than this.
P.S. They don’t wear clothes too.

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Not really aware of the same situation, that is, that the practititioner is not allowed into some buildings, or not allowed to sit near certain people, etc, get better rewards, etc.

But fuck that. I say this as a 50 year old white american male. In high school I bowed out of partaking in a race war because I realized it for what it was. I grew up with respect for others, and i saw in my own church i grew up in a seat of racism that made newcomers uncomfortable.

Practice as you need, but be safe. You have the right to worship whom you please. Obvisously some cultures are different from here, but you do you and be safe.

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I was born Hindu and work with the Hindu Gods only occasionally. The Gods with the strongest influence in my life are the Norse and Greek ones atm. If spirits reach out to practioners from a different race or belief system then it’s their choice. Just respect the other people’s customs and know what you’re doing.

This image seems to resonate with this post

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Azazel and Ganesha did not care that I was either of jewish or indian decent. They came to me so whoever told you that is full of shit. To me it’s like some kind of skewed racisim to say someone cannot work with certain spirits based on where they were born or into what culture. Very closed minded.

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This is kind of ironic (no the comment but the entire concept) because most closed practices are often touched down on due to the fact many people want to preserve their culture, of course going to the extent of gatekeeping is a issue but also if you are brought into it by the entities or a priest or what have you I find that it’s a different case, but I think it dips a little too heavily in concepts such as non-poc trying to control poc/bi-poc cultural practices.

(if this comment is too political feel free to delete it or what have you but I feel it needs to be acknowledged rather than people ignoring that fact)

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If I have some guns, and you do not, giving you a gun would elevate you to a similar level of power as me, so in some ways it behooves me to not give you a gun.

If I give you a gun and we work together, though, then we can probably take a single person with a gun.

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“Cultural Appropriation is Culturally appropriate” - Astaroth

(and yeah, I actually channeled that from her, including a bunch of other stuff that is too political to post here.)

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I have a different view altogether regarding some groups that perpetuate this behaviour. Frankly, I think a lot of it has to do more with racism, discrimination and ethnocentrism. However, they instead justify the behaviour using terms like cultural misappropriation, cultural erosion etc. I also think many of them use this closure to fuel exclusivity so they can earn more. Such is or was the case in many voodoo communities wherein money had to be paid for classes basically to get the “license” to contact this and that.

Thankfully we are in 2021 now you don’t need any communities really, all the knowledge is right here on the www

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