Who would you bet your money on?

Guy with more money and material possession
But normally its who has better game


I told you guy a would win the war.


Welcome in friendzone :wink:

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Things to keep in mind:

  • She’s already fucked someone who sucks more than you. Get out of your head about not looking like a model, making enough money, having X quality, etc. None of it matters to the primal brain, all that matters is you hit the right buttons, have some killer instinct, and keep your frame. I’ve seen amazing things happen because they absolutely knew it was a sure thing and confidence is sexy.

  • Women get off hard on your vibe and if played well it can be as arousing as ones looks in a different way. It’s rumored that Brad Pitt had a hard time with girls until he began his acting career. Think about that.

  • One is entirely at Mercy to her state (which Magick can influence strongly). They have Windows of sexual availability that open and close. One day she’s standing behind the counter at work thinking “god I need to get fucked until it’s hard to stand…” and anyone who ‘knows’ they can do that would do, other days she just watched her friend get cheated on by someone with no character and she hates all men.

Some days she just watched a romantic comedy and wants a boyfriend, or maybe she was a bridesmaid and is love crazy for a husband. Maybe it backfired on her and she’s a cynic with a fuck the world mentality. That one can go either way depending on you.

Some even go through an “only dates girls” kick and then months later hits the right guy up to finally put a collar on her for a weekend. (Spoken from experience… Thanks Asmodai!)

I’m of firm belief that everything is Magickal and the PUA mentality (the one that works.) Is a form of Magick in it’s own right. It comes down to the evocatour really. I’ve done really well without Magick. I’ve failed miserably with magick, and I’ve done things people simply will never believe with both mundane and Magick combined.

All things considered my money is on guy B given that he’s invoked a certain character, actually looks good, seems like he can fuck his way out of a wet paper bag, and a lot more that matters.

Guy A may or may not get what he asks for, however he would very very likely be lead to the skills guy B has that would suit him in his own way. He may even lose the girl yet he would learn to not need Magick for it at a later point and pull seeming miracles when he cast with it later.

I’ve been both Guy A and B at various times.

You can combine the two and getting to 8% bodyfat and dressing a bit more “dangerous” or “edgy” (not in the “stage crew kid” way) can do amazing things for your “looks.” Most guys look like they don’t even try. There’s hardly any competition out there if you barely go for it and there are a LOT of bored women out there.

Go be guy C even if you have to start as A. Best thing I ever did for myself



It’s odd that so many of my results either come out of completely nowhere (yet they’ve cooked in the background), show up through a biochemical change (I’m a human guniea pig for myself), or through new wisdom that completely reframes a situation.

I’ve had some amazing paradigm shifts in my life. I’ve craved these and that’s a fun way for spirits to shine light on something.

What’s the nature of results you guys tend to get? The spirits taught me how to get good with women and then showed me how by doing it through me. Through experience. They showed me how to have a ridiculous amount of fun and never hurt anyone doing it.

How does yours show up? I believe all results still need to show up through natural means, though I’m not sure if that’s a limiting belief or not.


Well for me, I have a more radical view of the way Magick works, and how I actually use it in practice. Essentially, I tend to let Magick inform me of its abilities and limitations by allowing it to set the presidence. For example…baneful Magick sets a very important presidence:

You ever notice how with all other areas, if you ask for a lot, people are quick to say, “whoa whoa whoa…you got a route for all that cash to come that you’re asking for?” Or “whoa whoa whoa…you sure you have the looks to ask for a supermodel?” But if you ask to wipe out a town of assholes, you’ll never hear anyone interject with, “whoa whoa whoa, have you left bear traps on the front lawns of your targets before asking for their death?” It’s interesting to me that what most magicians would consider to be the hardest thing to do in Magick…to kill another person…requires the least amount of mundane “assistance” by the caster. But things that you see all the time, like a hot girl with an unattractive guy…the expectation is for the caster to bust his ass in order to help the Magick out. If murder wasn’t illegal, my guess is that baneful Magick too would be riddled with people putting a cap on expectations. Look up the odds of a healthy individual in the USA or Canada not making it to their 50th birthday. The odds are slim, but Magick finds a way, without our help

The truth is, I think the culture that a person grew up in dictates subconsciously what they’re willing to accept. If you’re american, you grew up in a culture that believes there’s no such thing as a free lunch, and so some take that culture into the realm of magick, assuming that something MUST be done on your part to deserve a particular request, in spite of example after example of people getting what I’d essentially label as a free lunch from the spirits. So in my view, you should set your expectations based on your own skill level, not some artificial cap you placed on Magicks capabilities. For me, the “work” involved…the place where you “bust your ass”…is the work you put in to getting better with Magick, so that your results come about with less and less mundane intervention from the caster…to the point where you’ve mastered the devils stone technique, and can materialize fresh fruit in a mound of sand out of thin air, as EAs old Master Raj did.

Baneful Magick sets this presidence for me…of magick being able to accomplish difficult things without the mundane help of the operator, and I extrapolate what I coin as “The Baneful Principle” throughout all areas of magick. So if I want a new gf for example…Im unconcerned about making mundane changes to help the Magick out. I treat it equally to the way I, and everyone else treats Baneful Magick: Set it, then forget it. No need to help it, as it doesn’t need my help


Looks first and foremost matter. The rest is just texture you can add to those looks.

Both work, guy B are just far more common than A and probably has less beta traits.


I think this is a very interesting angle that needs to be explored further. If what you’re saying is true then it seems to me that as magicians we should spend 80% of our time investigating our subconscious and releasing our own blocks, 10% of the time casting spells, and the rest of the 10% improving in the mundane.

I’ve also noticed browsing the threads in balg that baneful magick is extremely successful compared to money magick and lust magick, with the latter two constituting most of the hangups people have. I’ve always thought that this is because the energies of rage and anger are more easy to focused on compared to love and wealth.


Nothing wrong with making changes in the mundane world, or having a route for things to work in the way you want it. But for me, each new success story that challenges conventional wisdom in Magick acts like case law setting new presidences from the supreme court…and for me, there’s more than enough case law amongst the multitudes of success within baneful Magick for me to not worry about intervention through mundane means as much as I use to, in order for a particular operation to be successful. If Magick doesn’t need my mundane help for arguably the hardest thing to accomplish in Magick, then it doesn’t need my help for desires that are routinely placed several tiers below it in difficulty


I voted B because : You mentioned a spirit, they don’t always do what you want so this is a minus. Second, the spirit may get the girl but guy A could miss the opportunity because he’s not experienced enough - for example, focusing on magick, not the girl !! - or not confident enough in himself and that brings fear and doubt.

On the other hand, guy A just needs the girl to say “Hi” then he knows what to do, and that’s what the girl expects from a man. So they’re dancing to the same song from the beginning, if you know what I mean. And that’s powerful magick as well.

In my opinion both guys are using magick… so magick wins no matter who gets the girl.


I also went with B because I think A would be his own worst enemy. Why? Years of feeling less-than, and not being willing to learn even minimal game or work to become more attractive, will hold him back. The attitude that chooses not to use every advantage and improve himself is seldom attractive to others.

If he was doing like 10% of those though, he would IMO be even odds for getting there first.


Men who work on themselves to the degree they are chiseled carry more than just looks.

They have discipline

Have mastered Time (which is necessary to become really fit)

Mental and Physical Stamina

And last but not least Confidence

These as well as his looks are what makes him attractive.

Those who worry about mastering the Spirit (magic) but not the Body or Mind will always be at a disadvantage, to those who master the other two.

Ideally you want to master all three so that you are in balance.

The one with magic can get the girl but the one whose mastered Body and Mind will keep the girl.

Therefore I say go fourth and master thy selves, become strong in Body, Mind & Spirit, attractiveness will follow, then watch as Men and Women fall before you to worship you.



(searches for least offensive illustration)


God damn I love that…

Very thought provoking. I like the way you think


Read my edited post.


I agree with most of that…as it doesn’t really contradict my point of view. Never said you can’t improve yourself in other areas to assist your magickal workings. I simply don’t believe that it’s a prerequisite for Magick to bring about what you asked for…and the reason I don’t believe it is because Magick has told me not to believe it by setting “judicial presidences.”

Case law one, Verdo vs. Single mom Here, I essentially acquired $4000 USD from basically out of no where. It came from a woman I never even met in person, who had other mouths to feed. My question for you is…what did I do to earn that? Did I cut someone’s lawn? Did I sell a product? Did I help someone solve a problem? I can tell you straight up that I did nothing to deserve that cash. Didn’t even have a job at the time. I asked for a free lunch, and I got it.

Case law two, Giliman09 vs school crush. A girl whom had already deemed the magician as sexually undesirable…flipped on a dime, from having zero interest, to banging him a week or two later. Now my question for you is this…what did he do to deserve that? Did he grow six pack abs and a chiseled chest in a matter of days? Did he magickally pick up PUA game so strong that in a few days, without even talking to her, she picked up on how suddenly suave he was across the ether that she now felt compelled to start harassing her friends about the guy at 2am in the morning? All unlikely, I would say. He asked for a free lunch, and he got one

Case law three, Oceania vs Best friend. So here’s a story where a woman not only friendzones the magician…she explicitly stated that he wasn’t her type. After doing a spell, two months later the girl is his. Now my question for you is this…what did he do to deserve that woman? Did he somehow acquire such an amazing personality, that in two months she magically saw something in him that she somehow didn’t see after 5 whole years of being his friend? Is there any indication that he got shredded in a two month timeframe and that sealed the deal for him? Last I checked, you get 1, maybe 2 pounds of muscle per month if you’re lucky and incredibly disciplined…but certainly nothing that would appear under a shirt. Now he did regret doing the spell, but he’s the one who called it quits, not her. He held on to her for 3 years, and probably could’ve kept her for many more if he wanted to. Again, I see a case of someone asking for a free lunch, then getting it.

These are just a few examples of what I’m talking about (and I’ve encountered many more) in order to make my point. Magick sets the presidence, and I readjust the limitations I place upon Magick accordingly. So my response to your suggestions of assisting Magick in the mundane world is, “Recommended, but unnecessary.” As I do or don’t do for baneful Magick, so too then do I do and not do for everything else



  1. Case law one:

You didn’t.

  1. Case law two:


  1. Case law three:

Nothing at all. :sweat_smile:

Because you used the force of magic to make someone give you money or to make someone attracted to you, you are in a sense mind controlling them through sorcery.

To me this is a Quantity over Quality use of magic, with this in mind the operator surely gets what he wants and there is nothing wrong with that.

But there is always an exchange with things like this, had he instead used magic to embolden his influence or buffered his business he would incur an income in the long run rather than a one-off check.

Had the operator used magic to strengthen his discipline and to master his desires he would incur physical strength and mental fortitude resulting in a fit body, mind & spirit, and thus Women would throw them selves at him.

Asking for the free meal may sound good at first but in the long run you give up more valuable rewards in its place.

To me the rewards are more valuable and longer lasting than the quick fix, and I think most demons would agree that over coming obstacles and emboldening character is more valuable than a free lunch.

Substituting something eternal for something temporal, does not beget the same rewards and self development, which is what ascension is all about.

To me climbing the mountain holds more glory than walking the plains. You reap more and the rewards are long lasting and come naturally than having to to do a spell for this or that.

Magic is best used in conjunction with real world action, and there is more benefits and they endure longer.

It all comes down to thinking short term or long term, Quality or Quantity.


And do your sentiments here translate to baneful quests as well? You talk about climbing mountains of glory and personal development. Alright, let’s take a climb:

Say one of my long term goals, outside of building my business empire and attracting women, I had a long term goal of systematically killing off all 50 members of a child pedophile ring that has harmed members of my family. I come to you saying that I plan on doing a series of baneful spells and evocations to start killing these abusers. Would your response to me be, “Don’t go for the quick fix. If you want to kill them…assist the Magick first by developing your body and fighting skills first so that you may retain the lasting rewards of a fit body and self defense skills that’ll last a lifetime…while simultaneously being more able to lend the Magick a hand by knifing some of them in the heart with your bare hands. Asking for the free meal may sound good at first but in the long run you give up more valuable rewards in its place, like being able to see the life of these abusers leave their body, while simultaneously developing your own core body strength, so that you may be able to parlay these rewards into other areas of your life later on, like becoming a fitness trainer, a marine, etc”

You see, as I said before… nothing that you’re saying is invalid, but it doesn’t really invalidate what I’m saying either. To you, the rewards may be more valuable than the quick fix, but that doesn’t make the quick fix unable to bring about the desired results that people are looking for. All this talk about going the long road is fine, but I find it fascinating how quickly it comes up when discussing matters outside of baneful Magick…but once the conversation goes back to the bane, all of a sudden it’s, “but the laws! but the laws!”

In an upside down world…if it were illegal to generate capital, but not illegal to receive it (similar to how in many countries prostitution is illegal, but solicitation for sexual services isn’t) conversations concerning wealth Magick would be far less proactive, and much more passive along the lines of baneful Magick…as the extent of what Magick can and cannot accomplish on its own in the minds of people is often largely influenced by carnal laws and norms, not astral ones…and that’s the main point I’m trying to make. I could have the most ambitious long term baneful quest for revenge you’ve ever seen, but you would never advise me to take the harder route of bulking up so that I can beat some of them to a pulp myself


My money is on…the girl. :slight_smile:

She is smarter than Boy A and Boy B. She uses her “feminine wiles” to seduce Boy B, because let’s face it, every Satanic Witch should have a fuck toy, and she is aware of Boy A’s attempt at magick, so she turns it back upon him, making him her drooling slave, because every Satanic Witch should also have a mindless drone to do the dishes :grin:


Just one question out of curiosity @Verdo . How often do you get your lunch for free when asking for it?

Also just wanted to say your logic is flawless, lol. I think Guy A also