Who would you bet your money on?

It depends, as I haven’t always asked for one in the past…but so far it typically pans out. I view Magick generally speaking, as an amoral tool similar to that of a knife. It doesn’t really care if I greedily cut a giant piece of cake for myself which I had no hand in baking or buying, nor does it care if I use it to kill an innocent man. It may agree or disagree, who knows…but at the end of the day it carries out my instructions to the letter. My usual worry is not so much about “will this work?” …it’s more about “have I carefully considered what it is that I’m asking for, because if I get this wrong, I’m going to get exactly what I asked for”

Now I said generally speaking because of course, when you’re talking about a place as large and diverse as the astral… you’re going to encounter some entities, like angels, that won’t do certain things for you. But people seem to forget that this field of magick is a pretty large one. If one route says no, there’s always like 4 or 5 entities/spellcasting methods on the side that’ll say yes. So yeah, that’s my take on it

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The Battle of the Sarumens
I’m at the edge of my seat here.

Guy B wins via flawless victory. I don’t know if we should count haymaker miracles as winning.

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I voted Guy A but if it’s a short battle, guy B for sure since things takes time to manifest.

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But not only time, there’s other factors in the game.

So that depends on the magician. If we’re talking about a good one, with a great control over himself, them it’s the A who wins the war.

In any other cases, B for sure.

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B wins, but if a is good its a few opportunities to proof hes better whit magic i got 50,/50 but b have more change

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31npcr

But seriously, I don’t think the two situations are comparable. The context for your thought experiment are drastically different, being a guy who wants to get laid rather than someone from your family was a victim of a gang.

Regardless of how you use magic and for what ever the reason you still gain more when you do it in conjunction with real world action.

My point wasn’t to say “Do it the hard way for the sake of it” but “Do it the smart way for the sake of your self”

Especially given the context of your initial thought experiment.

Not that it wouldn’t be easier to use a gun in combat rather than a sword and the gun would be more powerful, but I’m not saying drop the gun and pick up a sword.

I’m saying learn how to use the gun and the sword, for your own development.

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^ This guy BDSMs

Flip the script and you’ve got part of the dream lifestyle

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So I wanted to take some time to figure out how I would respond to this, as I don’t think you fully understand what my point is, even though I understand what your point is, but I’ll give it one more go

This line that I quoted from you here…I’ve already agreed with ya a couple times already that doing things this way is legit, if that’s what a particular person wants. The issue I think you’re having is actually understanding that I don’t view things with the same lense that you do. For me, one of my goals in Magick are to acquire results i desire with minimal mundane input from myself (ie. To maximize time efficiency). I don’t really care about, “going the smart way for the sake of the self” That is a concept that is very subjective…and what’s “smart” for your self isn’t necessarily what is going to be smart for my self. This isn’t really something that you or I can define or dictate to anyone. Each individual has to decide and define what’s “smart” for themselves on their own. The path that is smarter for one person or another depends entirely on what their objectives are. For example, if two people were looking for a new home…for some people, based on their finances and family situation, it would be smarter to rent. For others, it will be smarter to buy. But I as a house owner can’t dictate to everyone that my way is the smart way for everyone, because empirically, that isn’t true, even though it may be the smart way for me personally.

Now what I do care about however, is what works, and what doesn’t… within the context of getting results within magick. I’ve already validated your way of doing things as a viable path that works for getting results, but you haven’t invalidated my way of doing things as a viable path that works for getting results as well. My path of treating all areas of magick equally to how I perform baneful Magick for the purposes of getting results isn’t really debunked by you saying “go this route because it’s smarter for your self.” Now if you said, “Go this route because your route doesn’t work” …then we’d have a real debate on our hands. That’s the rub really.

Hopefully, that helps you understand where I’m coming from.

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Yeah sure fair enough.

But see things more objectively, your thought experiment had a clearly defined context and within that objective context I explained why guy B would win in the long run.

Then it got on a tangent with subjectivity being brought into it. I was never out to argue how one subjectively uses magic, but objectively why guy B makes out better.

Your thought experiment was specific and not vague, had your experiment been more generalized I would have answered differently.

I hold that “smart” can be dictated, though the degree’s of application will very from one individual to another, but the method is the same.

I tend to take a more hard line on things like that so. :man_shrugging:

But I can appreciate your view, it was nice talking about it. :slightly_smiling_face::+1:

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I’m going with Verdo on this one simply because I’ve always viewed magick in this same way and have seen it work wonders for me without lifting a finger in the mundane world. If we are living gods, and magick is an all powerful tool at our disposal, then we can evoke an entity to get what we want or cast a spell, or whatever else and get the desired outcome according to our wishes.

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