Thoughts on Law of Attraction

Chaos Magick, Psionics & Technology
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Here are some of my thoughts on the ‘Law of Attraction’ as far as I observe of worldly causality vs. thoughts and activities that seem to have zero effect:

  1. We live in a world of ‘Moloch’ traps (prisoner’s dilemmas, tragedies of the commons, other ‘multipolar’ traps). This state of affairs doesn’t seem like it would exist if either our wishes smoothed things over or if there was a deity carefully crafting us and using each to polish the other because it leads to a very strong ‘go’ signal on Darwinian game theory which is pretty much the opposite of progress unless we’re trying to build the best subjugators and dominators of others that we can muster (and if that’s nature’s goal - the whole idea of a ‘Masonic Great Work’ or anything like that would be a joke).

  2. Men have TONS of sexual fantasies, for sub-8’s or sub-9’s very few if any come true. If multipolar traps are a thing - that suggests this is because there’s nothing for one’s thoughts to grab onto in the outside world to pull levers of reality other than actually ‘acting’ in the world.

  3. The stoics have a meditation, ‘Premeditatio Malorum’, where they think about all of the different ways in which the day could go wrong so that they’re pleasantly surprised when none of those things happen. If LoA had anything to it this kind of meditation would bring total disaster to the point that they’d stop doing said meditation quite quickly.

While I don’t think the universe is truly ‘dead’, it’s got some kind of information processing and I find Stephen Wolfram and Donald Hoffman’s suggestions about the universe quite interesting - I get the impression that what we’re dealing with is an egregore stack. For example - we haven’t had nuclear weapons go off, outside of testing, in close to 80 years. A certain presidential candidate in the US turned his head just in time to have a bullet graze the top of his ear where if he hadn’t he’d be in a much different situation (possibly flowers and organ music). I think of that sort of thing as an egregore dump, ie. whatever the egregores need they may have their own interests to send ‘intuitions’ back down the stack.

I’m curious to see what other people are considering with this - ie. what do the three bullet points I mentioned say about reality if you disagree on my assessment? Also if you do agree - what other things might you add to what’s said above?

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I think the general scientific hypothesis (theory, and it was just a theory not an evidenced fact) that the universe tends towards entropy is incorrect. I agree with Terrence McKenna on this, though I use different language, that the universe is evolving and tends towards greater and greater complexity and hence greater and more varied experience, not towards chaos at all. Life inherently organises, breaks down, learns and reorganizes better and more, over and over again.

Imo the point of the universe is experience, McKenna calls it something else but it’s not intuitive and I forgot what. I happened to see this video here this week so it’s in that… I think I don’t agree with everything he says but most of it makes sense to me.

So for (1), it seems reasonable that with that complexity comes conflict and contradictions, people with opposing goals and values. I think it’s overstating it to say this is the entire works but these of course exist, but are a relatively small part of the experience.

I’m not sure what this is, but I think evolution is not about “progress” of any kind. All it is, is adaptation to the environment to help survival. Adaptation can go backwards in “evolution” if it allows the species to survive - imo, in order to continue gaining experience. For example whales still have vestiges of the legs they used to have before the species returned to the oceans - there are no humanoid whales which there would be if “progress” by our usual definitions was the object.

For (2), this seems to me to be how the species works. Nobody is “trapped”, it’s in the interests of survival for the species for only the best to procreate. Gestation for human females is ridiculously dangerous and expensive, so they do their best to select for power to protect, then genetics and intelligence - they all want the top guys and settle for what they can get. The top males get to spread their genes as far as they want. This is not random and not about the law of attraction, the energy you are swimming in, that societal pressure overrides individual energy, as it’s just the greater flow.
I think Hoemath on youtube has the right idea on this one.

(3) ‘Premeditatio Malorum’, where they think about all of the different ways in which the day could go wrong so that they’re pleasantly surprised when none of those things happen
I wouldn’t agree that this concept is leveraging the law of attraction. Part of the point of the exercise is to plan ahead to avoid and mitigate the unwanted, so the meditation also includes ways to fix an issue should it arise. The stoic the not using LOA “correctly” to manifest the unwanted event, they are not imagining that this is here now and already happening, they are doing magick to stave it off.
The intention is to be one step ahead and not blindsided.

And intention is everything.

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That kind of threw me for a loop.

You’re saying that ‘Law of Attraction’ is a very specific procedure that your thoughts, in general, don’t make contact with unless its very deliberate?

On 2) yeah - I’ve got a lot of ‘pills’ under my belt as well as hoe_math’s description of what happens to dating markets in societies that have no rules (ie. back to earliest models roughly which, since literal polygamy is illegal, it’s a different ‘poly’ and ‘situationships’ taking up the reigns). What I meant by that pointer though - fantasy seems to have no forward effect on how often you see someone or their regard for you, like there’s no contact there at all.

This is probably the first I’ve heard it implied that you have to do something very specific to engage LoA rather than it supposedly interacting with every single thought and / or idea with destructive interference patterns for when your thoughts are 180 opposite to one another. Obviously I know there’s formal ceremonial magick but I always had the impression that this was just to put more ‘oomph’ under it rather than doing something like turning a light switch from off to on.

The main reason I’m putting this out there - there just seems to be tons of BS and contradictions with LoA, I’m personally in a position where I think it’s been shown up to be completely empty (with the exception of attractive women not knowing that their beta orbiters are making their wishes come true or with some people who either can’t or don’t want to weed out or retest what would otherwise be false positives). I could be wrong but I just haven’t seen a convincing case where it’s worked for anyone.

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Have you read this older thread?

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I think I might be asking something much lower level. I’m not asking ‘How do you make law of attraction work because I need pointers?’, I’m asking about why - if it can work at all - we wouldn’t have significant synchronicity based on our daily thoughts which would reach out and connect with other social network agents which would then ‘arrange serendipities’. If I’ve noticed anything life has very few of those and part of being able to navigate life in a healthy manner is finding ways to cut down false leads, false beliefs, etc…

I don’t think our thoughts are what’s doing it (if they were we’d have lots of serendipity or, in the case of ‘Premeditatio Malorum’ practitioners, they’d be in a horrible way). I say that because serendipity wouldn’t be hot or cold at random the way it is. Maybe the ‘control matrix’ which would be what I brought up earlier, ie. the functionalist egregore stack sending downward causation, it’s what’s actually happening. I’m looking to see what other possible routes there are though.

This is more like ‘how would I account for LoA in a complex systems frame?’.

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We do, actually, we just don’t recognize it as such because we have never learned to take the time to look for a correlation between what we are thinking/feeling and any external event. We have been taught that things happen to us rather than that things happen because of us. It’s too scary to be totally responsible for everything in your life so people will do anything to abdicate that responsibility.

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The point we are making is that you attribute LoA to something that isn’t LoA, and then say LoA doesn’t work because of the failure of not using the LoA to manifest.

That’s why we are trying to clarify first what LoA is. It’s not wishful thinking, it’s not worrying, it’s not fantasizing and it’s not Premeditatio Malorum.

I don’t know if I agree with your assessment or not yet, as I’m not clear what you mean by things like “egregore stacks”. Those authors you mention - well, you didn’t say what their suggestions were so I don’t know what that’s about - they probably said a lot of things, can you summarize at all?

So what are your thoughts on, why random musings don’t manifest reality more strongly?

The way I picture it, the universe is like an ocean of energy. Your thoughts and actions have an effect, but you are just one tiny being, putting out very little energy, surrounded by an entire environment of other beings doing the same, and the geomancy involved of organizations, elements, land sea air all that stuff… you’re going to get swept along in currents not of your making.

So part of LoA, is about being very specific about navigating those currents, move out of the way of things you don’t want and towards what you do. Little thoughts aren’t enough, you do need to put real energy into it. That art of learning how to set your attention and intention to make a tool of your energy to affect the energy of entire currents is magick.

“No man is an Island, entire of itself” - John Donne

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We get pummeled by ‘surprise’ anytime the world isn’t in sync with our beliefs about it and we make inaccurate choices, so I can see why people would not want to treat reality like it’s the dream of a larger mind. Also living with 8 billion plus minds things are, indeed, ‘just happening’ to us all the time (with the added caveat that people who do what they can to avoid hazardous situations do better than those who don’t).

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This is why a principle of Hermetics is to “know yourself”. If you know yourself and pay attention to the flows of energy around you, you will see these things coming and not be surprised.

I mean, the landscape is pretty stable, you can map it and learn it’s weather and foibles. Through psychology and divination, geomancy and then add LoA, you can balance energy coming in with your own output to manage your world, or at least understand where you’re outgunned and cannot change a thing and act accordingly.

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With ‘egregore stacks’ - I’m looking at functionalism with multiple realizability, ie. ‘China brains’ exist.

The idea from Donald Hoffman’s explanation of it is that we are stacks of one-bit conscious agents that combine with other conscious agents to make full organisms. To give that a much more tangible example he has a three-way model where two one-bit conscious agents join as one identity through the mediation of a third that behaves as witness to the other two. He was talking about this with people who’d had split-brain surgery (mid 20th century fix for extreme epilepsy) and in his example neither hemisphere felt like anything changed once the corpus collosum was cut, seeming to indicate that the top level agent that was working at the union between right or left was cancelled when the corpus collosum was cut (and also why the hemispheres wouldn’t notice a difference - it wasn’t their level of function).

From what I can actually sort out of what we experience of the paranormal (I tend to side with the kind of analysis that George P Hansen gave it in ‘The Trickster and the Paranormal’ as well as some of Jacques Vallee’s ideas) - it’s coming down from ‘above us’ in that stack, ie. right above the human level you’d have small group minds, such small group minds would have egregores above them for locality, city, state, country, maybe not that neatly categorized along political geographic boundaries but that’s kind of the overall idea that when unusual bits of luck or breaks in statistical odds (no nuclear war for almost 80 years on a very power-hungry planet). That stack would probably have it’s top level for effects we’re familiar with, at the level of our planet. Past that my guess would be that it would quite alien and perhaps a bit removed from our fitness landscape that sculpts us for most people to track.

That seems to go in line with what I was considering - ie. that something ‘above’ you would need to hear you, like your idea, and you and it, or you, it, and it’s allies, make that thing happen but if you’re on your own in that there are no higher-level ‘contracts’ interested in what you’re doing nothing will come of it.

I’m not saying that’s absolute truth, I’m saying it’s the best working model I can come up with for now.

Part of what I really want to do is figure out how to leverage-hunt, ie. figure out what positive developments are teetering on edge waiting to happen but need the gentlest push or which things there’s hardly any amount of mental effort that could be put in that wouldn’t just end up with a stir of synchronicities for maybe three or four days but causing nothing over and above that (sort of like I waived a feather under and egregore’s nose and just made it sneeze).

If I were to try and describe how this whole question impacts me directly - I had about ten years, from 2013 onward, where I did what I could to get under this and it seemed like I ran into more and more Susan Blackmore surprises (I don’t know if you know her story but she was a full-on new ager back in 1970, had a profound OBE, wanted to test it all to prove it was true and that’s where all of the attempts to get any measurements blew up in her face and she was forced to go back down the reductive materialist line of inquiry). I also had years of watching NDE interviews / unpacks and instead of them getting stronger in terms of what their purported to be they increasingly just seem like a brain chemical dump and where the anecdotes about gaining information they couldn’t have learned without the experience being veridical - if true I almost have to think that those tidbits they picked up might have been the only ‘veridical’ parts of the experience (there’s right temporoparietal junction which manages proprioception and being able to understand yourself as a 3D entity in space - which is where it makes models that get flown in OBE’s). I’m still trying to figure out what’s left over.

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The other part - I’m psychotically hard on myself and I haven’t seen that turn my life into a nightmare, if anything it seems like it’s helped me avoid some really horrible things happening (when other people were too lenient and paid the price). I don’t know if that falls more in the ‘Premeditatio Malorum’ but - I’m seriously calling myself ‘raca’ when that happens. My living situation at least is what a total screw-up would have but that comes with a lot of adult responsibility so I’ve kind of made it a joke that I’m the unconditional loser (right or wrong society won’t touch me and the few people who like me either have intense common interests or have God in their lives and figure that I’m a decent person whose trying his best).

Also - the arbitrary - being on the spectrum and not being allowed to be on the spectrum, because so many neurotypicals would indeed make things up to fake a disability for free stuff, thus I can’t even tell people that about myself (save the most innocuous times where the context would 100% prove that I’m not looking to ‘get things’) even if it would be helpful.

For a lot of us, even most of us, the constraints of our lives are made of other people’s problems. For as many as I have I can’t even imagine the suck of what it would be like to be a young man living in Russia whose being forced at gun point to go to Ukraine and if he doesn’t want to be there he can get shot by anyone who sees him deserting - wonderful fate.

I’m trying to figure out whether there’s any knife sharp enough to cut through the absurd because I hate feeling like any moment in my life where I’m not forced to panic by the outcomes of other people’s bad decisions I’m feeling like I only outran crazy for a few weeks or months, and I feel like Seneca the Younger’s relationship to Caligula is pretty close to how I feel about my relationship to society (that I’m living at the whim of a colossal basket case who could destroy me through negligence or simple psychosis at any moment). This is also how, I reckon, people get ugly - ie. if I don’t physically make something happen that I need for going concern it won’t happen on its own thus the need to man-handle life rather than trust the process which demonstrated that if you had trusted it you’d be under a bridge or under the thumb of some petty tyrant. My foundational instincts were ‘trust the process’, that didn’t go well.

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To the degree that I’ve successfully done those things it seems like divination, geomancy, LoA, etc. aren’t what’s moving me forward but rather personal discernment and when it involves divination it’s discernment about the safety of taking the message seriously. If I do a tarot spread for myself I’m more likely to pay attention to it if makes an unusually compelling story and less so if it doesn’t, then if that story doesn’t pan out I have to come up with something else. Divination reminds me of the game people play by putting words on flash cards where if they’ve got writers block and need to write a song or poem they’ll let a stochastic process help get them unjammed. I have seen uncannily accurate information come from tarot and it’s most conspicuous when someone I have few encounters with pulls one card for me and it’s shockingly on point. Still - that attenuates to nothing across iterations when so much of the time that’s not what’s coming through the cards, so being able to trust the equipment at that level seems like it’s something I can’t bring myself to do without something a lot closer to 90% accuracy rather than 30, 40, or 50% because with that failure rate it can’t be a filter for my decison-making. My interactions with mediums has been significantly worse - early on they might have good esoteric reading recommendations, after that nothing landed which suggested to me that book recommendations might have been the only ‘real’ thing they had to offer.

Obviously I don’t want to go through life like James Randi unless we technically all are but most don’t know it - in which case I’d be screwed, truth would not be what I’d want it to be (that’s been off and on my whole life though and I’ve learned that I have to ignore my feelings when vetting facts), and I’d need to accept the ‘No God, no life hereafter, no human soul, and the only inexplicable thing is how neurons magically make consciousness from nothing’ if that were the case. I don’t think that’s entirely true but I’m still trying to figure out how far we actually are from that.

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I think we agree - as I see it, using discernment to me is what the others are tools to help you get to. If you can skip the middle man all the better. You’re not in the dark.

Sounds like tarot is just not your thing, they can be entertaining but looking at them waiting for the entertainment I could imagine throw things off.

That’s not a bad analogy. The best divination is a hook that gets your subconscious mind to communicate to you, through the cards, you don’t just look as the cards publish meaning you also use that to get intuitive ideas as well, and then relate the card intuitively to the others. If you don’t get those psychic impressions, then yes the cards are just ink on paper with no deeper insight available and free association is the best you’ve got to work with.

Personally, I’m a huge advocate of only doing your own work for yourself. Here’s the problem: other people’s UPG is their UPG, it’s a mix of their own subconscious and conscious mind, their background and their associations, not yours.

What that means is they should not be trying to interpret what they see, they need to just give you the straight impressions, which are usually very good. Then you should figure out what those mean to you.

This is commonly understood in the remote viewing community, but usually unknown to mediums, who are often “naturals” with no training who think the way they interpret symbols is universal. You also get something called “pollution” of the target over time so I’m not surprise they lose accuracy - they probably stopped just taking only impressions and started trying to identify and interpret based on the historical info they gathered, inserting conscious-mind invention into the mix.

This is what the conscious mind does, it’s it whole job and if you don’t take steps to avoid it that’s just how it is. So other people are awesome sounding boards, and it’s great to get ideas and advice, but at the end of the line you have to just put it in a bucket with everything else and interpret your own answer based on the impressions, if they told you what they were, not their conclusions.

It doesn’t mean they aren’t psychic, I think all humans are and getting and interpreting subconscious impressions is a skill that can be developed to an extent by literally everyone.

What it means is they don’t fully understand how it works and have not trained to separate impression from invention, which is huge part of the skill in remote viewing. Even then, with something as controlled an procedural as CRV (controlled remote viewing) you still cannot expect 100%. There are RVers out that that consistently get percent in the 90%, but on important cases you go with a team, who all know nothing, no frontloading, no pollution, castle building is set aside and discarded, and someone else entirely gathers all the impressions and compare them to form conclusions. You want to do something important like find a missing kid, tat’s what you do, you don’t call a medium, you call a team of RVers.

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That sounds like a catch-22, ie. how would you navigate, look around, gather a sweeping pan of data, when doing that of your own will you’d have nothing but confabulations to add (or at least it sounds that way).

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There is a clearly defined process and you follow the process, that’s how. That’s the entire point of thus military-developed technique. If it was just invention, it wouldn’t get over 90% accurate results. And I wasn’t exaggerating when I said this is used to find victims, and successfully, many times every year. RVers draw accurate maps and floor plans. It’s not UPG anymore when it’s verified (it’s in the name).

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Yeah, Jorjani talks about that sometimes. I think it was Joe McMoneagle who both had an NDE and had significant training afterward for 18 months so he was something like the MVP of the team.

I think there’s probably a genetic component too though - like some people are naturally better basketball players, others great lead guitarists or drummers, and you have people who might be something like super-perceivers in the sense that Gary Nolan talks about this and apparently has a bit of it. Everyone can probably do it to a degree but few people would be a LeBron or a Caitlyn Clark.

How would you intersect RV and LoA though? They sound like quite different ‘grips’.

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When i asked my spirits about the Law Of Attraction a decade ago, they told me ‘study vectors.’ Their exact words.

The problem with the Law Of Attraction is it assumes the attractive magnetic force overrides pre-existent contrarian vectors. It does not.

Life is dynamic, and you’re already moving in directions reinforced by various types of momentum due to previous interference and overriding factors.

Also, the force of thoughts does not override the force of tangible reality. Reality is slower than thought, but it’s also heavier and has more mass.

Put another way, if you have two magnets and hurl them in opposite directions, YES they are attracted, but unless their magnetic pull is stronger than the opposing forces applied to them, they will NOT come together regardless of how you feel about the matter.

Also, one idea will often displace an idea that already occupies that space/time frame. One of those things will have to move to make room for the other to replace it.

The Law Of Attraction takes NONE of these things into account, and like most New Age movements with fanciful ideas divorced from reality, it assumes good feeling as some kind of standard when the physics that underlie universal reality are based on other factors besides emotional pleasure.

In NLP it’s known that you follow a SMART goalsetting with an Ecology Check to ensure vectors don’t sabotage your aims, but Law Of Attraction types don’t seem to do this.

On the mental level, it can also help to explore feelings using something like Byron Katie’s The Work technique or other forms of Parts Negotiation & Parts Integration techniques such as the Visual Squash to remove internal blocks and negative anchors, which are usually based around feelings of helplessness, worthlessness, or hopelessness.

There are realities the Law Of Attraction field doesn’t seem to recognize that hold many people back from actualizing its precepts, but i guess it’s more profitable to let people linger in unfinished states, selling them more courses instead of pointing out the obvious hinderances the LOA movement refuses to acknowledge.

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Yeah, the new age movement seems to be all about sweeping up as much alimony money as they can for crystals, sage, seminars, Access Consciousness ‘bars’, wheat grass enemas, just whatever gets people’s rocks off and appeals to their sense of fashion - and whoever tells them they’re absolutely amazing, pretty much everything they want to hear. IMHO that’s mostly for people who are much more interested in how awesome it is to ‘look’ spiritual because it’s another social hierarchy to climb.

Something else that no one’s commented on in the thread yet - wouldn’t there be something like egregore alignment or effectively hacking egregore honeypots, not necessarily in a degenerate way but shopping in reverse for opportunities that are pretty close to happening on their own anyway. That seems like it’s the more practical thing to do but then - is that pretty much the same thing as just doing the thing in the physical and disregarding the spiritual if the will of the egregores just mirrors the world of matter? That might also explain maybe why people don’t have the spiritual permeating everything, not that it’s a cope but that it’s such a subtle / weak force compared to all of the other forces happening that it can only be used for quite different types of projects than worldy power, such as internal alchemy.

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@MagickAndBreakz
loves it
great post :+1:

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BTW Mulberry, I didn’t have the chance to chime in on this - the kind of, making up words here, ‘flow-forward’ of such a system with granular organizing principles settling on more complex order based on these initial principles, I can’t remember if you read Stephen Wolfram’s work or not but that sounds a lot like his cosmology. To that end if you haven’t had the chance to check it out I think you’d really enjoy it.

Also - his ruliad really sounds like Sunyata, Ain Soph, the ‘Naught’, etc.

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