"Quantum Locking," Source & Manifestation

General Discussion
1

Nerd-alert warning: “quantum locking” is a concept I first came across in the TV show Dr Who, in which a group of alien creatures called the Weeping Angels can only move when they’re not being observed, and when they are being observed by a human or another of their own kind, they lock into place at an atomic level, looking like stone statues.

This idea is based on something from genuine quantum physics called the Zeno Effect in which:

The quantum Zeno effect (also known as the Turing paradox) is a situation in which an unstable particle, if observed continuously, will never decay.

…The name comes from Zeno’s arrow paradox which states that, since an arrow in flight is not seen to move during any single instant, it cannot possibly be moving at all.Wikipedia


Note that I’m using this term “quantum locking” in a more metaphorical sense, as a model for an apparently widely recognised phenomena in magick, rather than saying that this precise concept regarding subatomic particles is at play here.

Background

It’s my proposition that the spacetime perception we inhabit is quantum locked (in the manner of the Weeping Angels) to the extent that any magickal operation defying known physical laws which completely violates probablistic cause and effect can’t happen when it’s being observed by a human being in a regular state of conscious awareness, and that this locking effect increases if the observer is hostile to the outcome, through either honest disbelief or malevolent desire to see the operation fail.

This, I believe, is:

  • why atheists are very hard to curse;

  • why some of the oldest rules of magick involve secrecy, aka preventing outsiders from observing your work;

  • why ceasing to fret over a magickal working once it’s complete is highly recommended, because you’re no longer observing it in a hostile way beset with fears of failure that stem from doubt;

  • why entheogens are very popular in magick, along with trance, in order to temporarily change the consciousness of the observing magician and remove his or her own locking;

  • why I believe that initiation originated as a tradition from the need for the student to witness the teacher performing an apparently impossible act, in order to widen their own belief that such a thing was possible (thus preventing the aspiring magician themselves from being the hostile observer of their acts);

  • and finally, why I believe it’s more difficult to manifest from nowhere any object or event that originates from (and is therefore observed by) another and disinterested human being, such as banknotes or love, without some plausible causal channel being created for those things to arrive. Something that, in other words, wouldn’t put an observer’s belief in reality out of joint, and therefore doesn’t need to break the locking effect created by observation.

The Divine Paradox

It’s my further proposition, since this is something I believe I’ve experienced first-hand, that a person who can alter their consciousness to be sufficiently close to the Source of all consciousness is able to overcome this locking, and to manifest events and material objects into reality by performing “internal observation” of that event/thing by holding a strong emotional impression around it, BUT that this is difficult and unpredictable because the act of having a strong emotion (a form of attachment to the material world and its illusory “good” and “bad” outcomes) almost precludes the possibility of getting to that state of consciousness.

This is discussed in the Kybalion as the Divine Paradox: the infinite All witnesses the universe as a dream; the finite (us) witnesses the universe as real. To think as God is to be in a state of detached “mountain-top consciousness” which is incompatible with everyday life and everyday consciousness with desires, hopes, etc.

The universe is; and is not - these two poles of truth are the Absolute and the Relative - and half-truths, such as when new-agers play “blame the victim” towards someone who’s manifested an illness, are a trap for feeble minds.

The concept that you create your own reality is only useful when you are on the inside, experiencing it as an empowering belief, and should never be used to dismiss someone else’s cry for help (and that works out logically, as well - if you hear their cry, then by that theory you’ve manifested them into your life and arguably have a partial duty towards them for the event and their suffering, which is also your own manifestation. The only way out of that duty is to make the decision that they and their suffering are completely irrelevant, in effect deleting them from your own reality field by ceasing to care, but that’s not a step most new-agers who tell victims of abuse that they must have manifested it for some reason are willing to take).

This seeming paradox regarding what is, and is not real, is an aspect of the Principle of Polarity described in the Kybalion.

This is why the RHP argument “Everything is as it should be/is according to God’s will” is a cop-out, because what’s right for God/the All/Source is a different thing to what matters to us, the finite differentiated beings who have to deal with it at ground-level.

So, it seems to me from both theoretical analysis and also (more importantly) direct experiential knowledge, that this finite relative universe is locked down under specific laws, and that magick of even the strongest kind can only operate within those laws in most circumstances.

God’s Toolbox

I joined this forum a year ago and some of my earliest posts were about wanting to take the ability to desire something strongly enough to manifest it, right up to the boundaries of that Source/merger experience, in order to command literally godlike, miraculous power. I’m not fucking about when I say I actually do intend to become a living god, and it was searching stuff like that which led me to find this site, and at first I thought it was a pisstake when I saw the URL.

I wanted to get my hands on God’s toolbox, on the very materials that form creation BEFORE it becomes subject to too many laws and quantum-locking via the observation of other differentiated and finite beings. That is my definition of my overall goal, “to command the powers of a goddess within my lifetime” - not flying or ceasing to need food, water and air to survive, and toilet paper to wipe my butt and so on.

I’ve been working diligently since then on the operating theory that demonic forces alone contain enough power, which I initially conceptualised as being “fallen” as in, having no ability to return directly to Source through Union, and thus providing a kind of anchor point - I later developed that through first-hand experiences and interactions with demonic beings, as described in my post about the psychology of demons to define them as holding an over-riding love/desire/passion for certain things, but in any event my hoped-for outcome should be the same - to use demonic levels of focus on the Relative aspect of creation in order to be able to keep my differentiated and desire-imbued form right up into the white-heat kind of detached energies of Source, which feels somewhat like a total divestment of differentiated qualitative being.

So, that’s why I’ve done some of the wacked-out stuff I did this year, and the more I plan to do.

I just wanted to make this post as a kind of gnosis dump of what I’ve got going on, what the fruits have been of my many years on the RHP yearning for Union, and then along the LHP aspiring to personal divinity; why I currently believe that certain things are possible with magick and others are more difficult; and to throw some ideas about possible ways to attain literally godlike power out there for the (probably minority) of other people who actually have that as their goal.

All this stuff is still a work in progress, and what’s pretty neat is that I independently came to some conclusions about the nature of the Sun as a result of the planetary Invocation I was doing daily, and the concept of divestment of astral (planetary) raiment talked about in hermetic thought.

Then the stuff in EA’s recent evocation of Sorath resonated with some of that to a high degree, especially the channelled bit at the end of the video, so that combined with the experience of reaching the merger-point earlier this week though a completely new technique made me think it was time to share an overview of my own researches, and see if anyone has experienced anything like it, or has experiential input that could add a new dimension, or challenge something I’ve theorised in a meaningful way?

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In my early years I often tranced out to the point where I lost myself. In these moments I could clearly see anywhere from a few hours to a few days in the future (or most probable future). It was like living a dream in which I could see what would happen.

The events I saw took place as I saw them play out in trance, sometimes exactly as I saw them, sometime a few details were off.

I found the part about God’s detached and dream state to be very much in line with what I experienced. Though I am still unsure if I was observing the future or causing change.

I do have a question about the Demonic holding an overriding love/passion for a certain thing(s). What would you see the Angelic as? So far my UPG is that there is very little difference between the angelic and demonic, they just hold different jobs in the realms they represent. Ie the Archangel is an Archetype of a force and can initiate or tune a magician to the force they wish to work with, which makes working with the Daemons easier.

I think working with the Angelic Force that corresponds to the Daemonic Force you wish to work with would help aid you in connecting to that part of the relive force of creation and could aid in your keeping the “Here and Now” self intact.

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That sounds very similar to what I experienced, what mine was like was that reality became like a daydream, so if you were to daydream for example about some sexy movie star kissing you, and in the daydream you decided to imagine them wearing a certain kind of clothing, and it just appears - like that. Hard to describe and retain any degree of credibility! And it didn’t last for long, and was mostly useless to me at that time anyway becausew of the detachment thing that was needed to get me there in the first place.

For very brief periods, and only in an erratic way (coz of the loss of desire inherent to that state) I could kind of form things and events by use of will, and after those experiences of going into Source, less dramatically, various things that I held strong emotions about happened more or less as I’d conceived them mentally - something that recurred recently with that event I’d been worried about, that crossed my mind just after having a merger-experience.

I do have a question about the Demonic holding an overriding love/passion for a certain thing(s). What would you see the Angelic as?

The core concept that I hit upon working with Ahriman was that there’s the Clockwork law-driven force, which is essential because if there was no “default setting” kind of thing, the entire manifest reality would fall into chaos and then become gloop - then on the other side there’s the Serpentine force of will and desire for something different that acts upon the Clockwork mechanism.

Angels are forces that work to preserve the Clockwork aka the Law that maintains the manifest reality in its purest form, not purest in a moralistic sense but by bringing it closer to the default perfected state, so for example Raphael might alleviate or remove consequences of an illness or dis-sease because the original creation was designed not to have it.

That’s my current UPG on angels and I have been practically interrogating Raphael recently, I’ll try to get time to type it all up and post some of the results.

I think working with the Angelic Force that corresponds to the Daemonic Force you wish to work with would help aid you in connecting to that part of the relive force of creation and could aid in your keeping the "Here and Now" self intact.

I was told off the back of that work in Feb & March to work with both angels and demons, so yes, that makes sense!

Neither the Clockwork nor Serpentine forces (to use my personal terminology/understanding) are “better” or stronger than the other, the Clockwork force left to run without any outside force coming in will devolve into stagnation, the Serpentine force left alone would rip everything apart into chaos and all underlying form and qualities would eventually be lost because there’d be no cohesion, so both are important, and they and their agents are not actually at war in the “Winner takes all sense” though obviously the desires of both forces (and their agents) can and do conflict at times.

Angels have an overriding love as well, but it’s along lines of Law, of honouring the creation’s Clockwork nature and helping to restore it at its highest form whenever possible, whereas demons are more about “I want what I want and nothing’s gonna stand in my way” so they don’t seem to have to obey those Laws in the same fashion, and can enact will upon the universe without worrying if it dmages, for example, someone’s free will or causes a disease (of the type Raphael would eradicate) and so on.

I’m typing this in a very certain-sounding way because a lot of it stems from personal experience which I believe to be valid explanations of how things work, but as ever it’s all UPG and I’m not trying to sell anyone on my ideas, because that’s craptastic. :slight_smile:

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[quote=“Lady Eva, post:1, topic:4201”]Nerd-alert warning: “quantum locking” is a concept I first came across in the TV show Dr Who, in which a group of alien creatures called the Weeping Angels can only move when they’re not being observed, and when they are being observed by a human or another of their own kind, they lock into place at an atomic level, looking like stone statues.

This idea is based on something from genuine quantum physics called the Zeno Effect in which:

The quantum Zeno effect (also known as the Turing paradox) is a situation in which an unstable particle, if observed continuously, will never decay.

…The name comes from Zeno’s arrow paradox which states that, since an arrow in flight is not seen to move during any single instant, it cannot possibly be moving at all.Wikipedia


Note that I’m using this term “qunatum locking” in a more metaphorical sense, as a model for an apparently widely recognised phenomena in magick, rather than saying that this precise concept regarding subatomic particles is at play here.

Background

It’s my proposition that the spacetime perception we inhabit is quantum locked (in the manner of the Weeping Angels) to the extent that any magickal operation defying known physical laws which completely violates probablistic cause and effect can’t happen when it’s being observed by a human being in a regular state of conscious awareness, and that this locking effect increases if the observer is hostile to the outcome, through either honest disbelief or malevolent desire to see the operation fail.

This, I believe, is:

why atheists are very hard to curse;

why some of the oldest rules of magick involve secrecy, aka preventing outsiders from observing your work;

why ceasing to fret over a magickal working once it’s complete is highly recommended, because you’re no longer observing it in a hostile way beset with fears of failure that stem from doubt;

why entheogens are very popular in magick, along with trance, in order to temporarily change the consciousness of the observing magician and remove his or her own locking;

why I believe that initiation originated as a tradition from the need for the student to witness the teacher performing an apparently impossible act, in order to widen their own belief that such a thing was possible (thus preventing the aspiring magician themselves from being the hostile observer of their acts);

and finally, why I believe it’s more difficult to manifest from nowhere any object or event that originates from (and is therefore observed by) another and disinterested human being, such as banknotes or love, without some plausible causal channel being created for those things to arrive. Something that, in other words, wouldn’t put an observer’s belief in reality out of joint, and therefore doesn’t need to break the locking effect created by observation.

The Divine Paradox

It’s my further proposition, since this is something I believe I’ve experienced first-hand, that a person who can alter their consciousness to be sufficiently close to the Source of all consciousness is able to overcome this locking, and to manifest events and material objects into reality by performing “internal observation” of that event/thing by holding a strong emotional impression around it, BUT that this is difficult and unpredictable because the act of having a strong emotion (a form of attachment to the material world and its illusory “good” and “bad” outcomes) almost precludes the possibility of getting to that state of consciousness.

This is discussed in the Kybalion as the Divine Paradox: the infinite All witnesses the universe as a dream; the finite (us) witnesses the universe as real. To think as God is to be in a state of detached “mountain-top consciousness” which is incompatible with everyday life and everyday consciousness with desires, hopes, etc.

The universe is; and is not - these two poles of truth are the Absolute and the Relative - and half-truths, such as when new-agers play “blame the victim” towards someone who’s manifested an illness, are a trap for feeble minds.

The concept that you create your own reality is only useful when you are on the inside, experiencing it as an empowering belief, and should never be used to dismiss someone else’s cry for help (and that works out logically, as well - if you hear their cry, then by that theory you’ve manifested them into your life and arguably have a partial duty towards them for the event and their suffering, which is also your own manifestation. The only way out of that duty is to make the decision that they and their suffering are completely irrelevant, in effect deleting them from your own reality field by ceasing to care, but that’s not a step most new-agers who tell victims of abuse that they must have manifested it for some reason are willing to take).

This seeming paradox regarding what is, and is not real, is an aspect of the Principle of Polarity described in the Kybalion.

This is why the RHP argument “Everything is as it should be/is according to God’s will” is a cop-out, because what’s right for God/the All/Source is a different thing to what matters to us, the finite differentiated beings who have to deal with it at ground-level.

So, it seems to me from both theoretical analysis and also (more importantly) direct experiential knowledge, that this finite relative universe is locked down under specific laws, and that magick of even the strongest kind can only operate within those laws in most circumstances.

God’s Toolbox

I joined this forum a year ago and some of my earliest posts were about wanting to take the ability to desire something strongly enough to manifest it, right up to the boundaries of that Source/merger experience, in order to command literally godlike, miraculous power. I’m not fucking about when I say I actually do intend to become a living god, and it was searching stuff like that which led me to find this site, and at first I thought it was a pisstake when I saw the URL.

I wanted to get my hands on God’s toolbox, on the very materials that form creation BEFORE it becomes subject to too many laws and quantum-locking via the observation of other differentiated and finite beings. That is my definition of my overall goal, “to command the powers of a goddess within my lifetime” - not flying or ceasing to need food, water and air to survive, and toilet paper to wipe my butt and so on.

I’ve been working diligently since then on the operating theory that demonic forces alone contain enough power, which I initially conceptualised as being “fallen” as in, having no ability to return directly to Source through Union, and thus providing a kind of anchor point - I later developed that through first-hand experiences and interactions with demonic beings, as described in my post about the psychology of demons to define them as holding an over-riding love/desire/passion for certain things, but in any event my hoped-for outcome should be the same - to use demonic levels of focus on the Relative aspect of creation in order to be able to keep my differentiated and desire-imbued form right up into the white-heat kind of detached energies of Source, which feels somewhat like a total divestment of differentiated qualitative being.

So, that’s why I’ve done some of the wacked-out stuff I did this year, and the more I plan to do.

I just wanted to make this post as a kind of gnosis dump of what I’ve got going on, what the fruits have been of my many years on the RHP yearning for Union, and then along the LHP aspiring to personal divinity; why I currently believe that certain things are possible with magick and others are more difficult; and to throw some ideas about possible ways to attain literally godlike power out there for the (probably minority) of other people who actually have that as their goal.

All this stuff is still a work in progress, and what’s pretty neat is that I independently came to some conclusions about the nature of the Sun as a result of the planetary Invocation I was doing daily, and the concept of divestment of astral (planetary) raiment talked about in hermetic thought.

Then the stuff in EA’s recent evocation of Sorath resonated with some of that to a high degree, especially the channelled bit at the end of the video, so that combined with the experience of reaching the merger-point earlier this week though a completely new technique made me think it was time to share an overview of my own researches, and see if anyone has experienced anything like it, or has experiential input that could add a new dimension, or challenge something I’ve theorised in a meaningful way?[/quote]

I’m speechless… will you marry me? :wink:

great post… I was going to response but… I’m just not nerdy enough (was thinking about cosplay and comic con)… also, while I lived in northern London none of the phonebooths had any time travel capabilities or particle accelerators built in… What a disappointment…

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Seriously, chick, you are awesome.
Everything you post is exactly what I need to know at the moment it becomes relevant to me.

I would be beyond honored if you’d mentor me, O’ Wise One.

6

I would say that a great deal of the adherence to these laws is based on how locked in a person decides to be. I’ll give an example of a person who I knew who could have active, full-conscious dreams at will. While chatting online, she would tell me about her dreams, and that she had all this interest and practice in magick. She even talked about strange, sometimes “miraculous” occurrences from her dream practices distilling into this world.

Despite her experience, it completely alluded her that she had dream skills that could help boost her magick. So I posited the idea, stated my theories on the idea, and left her be. As soon as this happened, her ability to even remotely lucid dream was completely paralyzed for some 2-3 months. When it was lackadaisical and just “some shit that’s cool”, then she could do it with no problem. But once I posited the idea that it could change her reality entire, instantaneous shutdown.

I’m not sure if these laws are so powerful as it is that people highly underestimate just how much we have become comfortable with these laws. As such, this comfort shapes our entire ideology in terms of what can and cannot be done, what is easy and difficult, and what is powerful or not powerful. As such, we can see that even elementary levels of magickal progress are considered powerful in many modern senses, and that we implant the ideologies of the the system we have conformed to (our entire economic system is self-created) into what we do magickally. So we don’t even just conform to laws that appear cosmic, we conform just as hard to self-generated laws that have little meaning to anything else but the Earthling human.

I had an experience with an atheist, who thought it would be fun to make jeers at my meditation. He, in a very snobbish tone, was making all sorts of goofball ghost noises, so I asked why he had to act that way. For a reason I didn’t even think, I decided that I would bet him that I could guess that last 4 numbers on his debit card. I had no practical reason to make this bet, but I was just “in it” and for whatever reason, I knew I could do it. I got a set of numbers, which I had posited to be 9423, but kept repeating and 9234. I finally got down the 9423, and spoke out and said “9234!!” Thinking I had failed, this dude was like, “FUUUUUCCCKKK!!!” I promptly gave him the number to the calazone joint down the street and ordered 4 of those bad boys (which I managed to eat in the same day).

So it’s kinda weird, because not only was it pretty easy, I had no actual experience doing anything of that nature. And while he was the only atheist in the room, there were 2 other people there who were massive science geeks who were pretty damn skeptical. But at the end of the day, he pretty much shit in the face of a lot of things that I was told were necessary for success with primordial work (I was in the “Law of Attraction” stage of my life at that time).

I feel that we have to address that the standard for what is considered mastery or advanced practice has gone down somewhat drastically over time. I say this primarily because I really didn’t feel powerful until I studied traditional works (which I made a habit of trolling for the sake of inefficiency), and moreover that the “miracle workers” I’ve come to know spent their time practicing traditional (often Eastern) shamanic practices in a immersive kind of way.

So they had time to break that immersive coil on them, and yet and still that was considered the beginner stage of things. They often had these skills available as reliable tools that they could use as quickly as as readily as they could use shoes. And yet, these people would be considered masters just because they reached a level that was relegated to beginners.

One of the reasons that I don’t advocate that people try too much phenomenal magick before mastering basics is due to the fact that while success happens through causal frames, that success can also re-affirm our comfort with those causal frames. Considering that this causal necessity is, in my experience, strong due to comfort rather than the power of the lock itself, I take a route that reaffirms gaining that level of divine consciousness first. I only say that because, as I am practicing right now, I often find that things like attraction from women or financial serendipity have happened DESPITE my lack of focus on them. At least in cases of the women, I’m finding that this abundance, while interesting, isn’t even wanted right now.

I also feel that the more you get locked into certain important parameters of this world, even those that are considered “spiritual”, the more that they reaffirm the limits of this place. Granted, we all are at a point where we need some method to get to that Divine consciousness, but I think that more naked approaches might be favorable than observance of many astrological systems or overuse of pre-known entities. Since I have experience with personal entities being born or, in my understanding, “realized” with vasts amounts of ancient power, wisdom, and personality despite only coming into Earthly experience when I “created” them, then it’s something that I recommend to a magician who looks to break the bounds of reliance on whatever laws that we are perceiving at the moment. For me personally, I have worked with pre-known entities, but I have risked working with them in ways that would seem almost “sacrilegious” or really dangerous (i.e. working pre-known male entities as female succubi for instance). I have yet to be “punished”.

It does help, however, to know that I was kinda born into a state where I was always the “super-minority” in a group of people. So I have rarely done a great deal of things by the book. I’m not saying this to be special, but I say it to point out that I have a life experience where the rules were never something I could live by because of what I was raised to prioritize. So with that template, I might find certain things easier to break than those who have backgrounds where they weren’t so terribly off-the-radar of anything that was socially normal.

7

I just had to quote the wikipedia “Zeno Effect” philosophy here, even if the arrow or bullet or whatever is not seen as moving - it certainly is thought? the eyes just have too slow fps (Frames per second) although maybe i missed the point, but this came of like “schrödinger’s cat” or does the wood make a sound if it falls in forest and no one is there to see - which it most definitely must do by the way… This philosophy would only clarify everything as observation whilst everything is not only observation, observation is observation - if you drink poison and you didn’t know it, you will still most probably die.

Sorry for off-topic again, i’m the off-topic man. Anyways this was interesting and juicy spicy verytasty/10 .

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FWIW, this agrees in essential points with my own UPG. The experience I was given presented Darkness as the Unmanifest, but containing all potentialities, and Light as Manifest but limited. Also, that Darkness surrounds, envelops and interpenetrates all Manifestation.

When I asked the Archangel Raphael about this Darkness, his comments was, “It is the primordial blackness, power and desolation.” I suppose that from the perspective of an agent of Order, change would be seen as desolation.

The other bit of info I’ve been given (over several conversations in pieces, so I won’t quote directly) is that aligning with the Light is primarily about humility, in the sense of “knowing your place in the scheme of things”, while Darkness is more about pride as a source of strength.

Again, UPG, etc., but it’s interesting to see some connections.

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Thanks Lady Eva, my nerves have been frazzled all day and this fantastic thread set me right.

The trick for using magic on skeptics is to do it subtly so they don’t notice and don’t resist. THose locked positions can be moved, no matter how stubborn the person is. For instance, fear will make someone let go of a locked position pretty damned quick.

“I later developed that through first-hand experiences and interactions with demonic beings, as described in my post about the psychology of demons to define them as holding an over-riding love/desire/passion for certain things”

That is the single best definition of demons I’ve ever seen, and I don’t think anyone will ever be able to do better.

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Glad this seems to have been interesting! S.V.E., I’ll totally marry you, but you know phoneboxes do travel through time - just at 1 second/second, and they only seem to go “forwards”… I gotta do something about that someday. :o)

Seriously, like I said, it’s just a gnosis dump of my stuff to date, I’m certainly not presenting this as “This is a Law of Majeeck for everyone” or anything - just grouping my observations into a stream of thought that makes sense, because bear in mind when I first attained this stuff back in my yoga days, I wasn’t expecting it to turn out as it did, nor for my thoughts to start popping up in reality, because at that stage my goal really was to leave this level behind and merge totally with the All.

So it’s more of a “when I do X, Y happens” kinda thing, and I have found that keeping hostile observers out makes things I do work a fuck of a lot better, and it does also explain some of the stuff like the 4th Power of the Sphinx etc., which goes back to classical days.

Obviously stuff around observation isn’t the main law in the phsyical world, or we’d all black out our car’s windows for safety’s sake, and take all the warnings off radioactive waste, and so on. :wink:

For me it’s about what works consistantly, for example I ONCE and only once managed to make something move by mind-power alone, so while that was a rush I was unable to replicate it and therefore I don’t consider myself like some expert in psychokinesis or whatever, because a fluke that can’t be consistantly repeated isn’t under my control.

I have consistantly repeated a lot of things operating under those precepts I posted though, to improve my career, to help my clients, even to help out friends and whatever, so for me, that’s working more like a tool than a restriction at this stage.

If that’s just a kind of “psychic placebo-effect” whereby, when I know I met my criteria, I drop all doubts, then that’s cool as well - if my magick required 15 gold-plated male virgins and a swan, then yeah, maybe I’d start dabbling and trying to dispense with stuff! :wink:

But if it ain’t broke…

Anyway that’s what’s been going on for now, I certainly haven’t got my shit together enough to even think of mentoring anyone but as usual I’ll dump whatever I find in these fine forums for as long as that’s possible, and then like a rummage sale, take anything that fits you and leave the rest.

I’d be interested in maybe having a new thread of widely-recognised magickal rules you guys have broken consistantly? THAT would be well juicy, and valuable! Also, ref: my theory on the origins of initiation, it could kind of pass that ability on? Could be cool… :wink:

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Magical rules… How appropriate when i was just reading this book “writings about magic” and it stated that one should go through these 5 initiations before using magic or it might be dangerous - and also they were telling that the balance between rhp and lhp would be necessary; whilst giving you the idea that modern day occultism seems to be extreme lhp where moral is left away and “everything that works is fine” mentality and selfishness is intensified. While it might be so, i cannot grasp what is wrong with being selfish as it is very natural - although might not be good considering the world in it whole if left alone without another aspects to one who doesn’t consider things enough to be selfish safely.

And also why wouldn’t it be okay to use something like magic, even without realizing the every aspect of its working - as we can use anything without knowing much anything about it in this world.

But as this book alluded, there is no absolute truth about these things - at least spoken out loud as the ones who know are guided to silence.

  • off topic man? but what is off-topic after all, forth this was considering matters discussed in topic - the only aspect of this message that can be considered bad is that is indeed can seem bit chaotic, but like in universum we have the law and chaos; so it is in the thread.
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[quote=“Lady Eva, post:10, topic:4201”]For me it’s about what works consistantly, for example I ONCE and only once managed to make something move by mind-power alone, so while that was a rush I was unable to replicate it and therefore I don’t consider myself like some expert in psychokinesis or whatever, because a fluke that can’t be consistantly repeated isn’t under my control.

I have consistantly repeated a lot of things operating under those precepts…[/quote]

Same here, and I’ve been using the same methods to improve consistency. I never use the word “power” when talking about magic, I use reliability. It would seem all roads lead to Rome.

It’s pretty much the Carlos Castaneda philosophy. We begin quantum locked in a habitual position. So the first skill a sorcerer needs is Dreaming (not literal, just what they call it), the ability to move away from that habitual position. The second skill is that of Stalking, the ability to lock yourself in a new location.

If you’re on FB, you should check out the group “The Nature of Dream Control”. I’ve got some stuff up there you may find relevant.

13

Well, like the stuff I posted in this thread, Azazel, the Vedas, a bunch of other spirits I’ve spoken to (including in my love & light days) and also the New Thought/LoA teachings and the Kybalion, not to mention my UPG, are all saying we kind of co-create reality but that our own universe is ours alone, so yes - the only version of Truth is that which is useful to the individual, which is why I say again that anything I post isn’t being proposed as THE Truth but as A truth that’s working for me right now. :slight_smile:

There may be some objective truths that work for everyone, I dunno, but my role isn’t to teach anyone so I’m not that interested in whether they exist or whether I’ve found them. Also, this: http://www.constitution.org/col/blind_men.htm

I definitely feel like my earlier experiences of samadhi and Union broke some kind of lock and that’s why it was easier to attain this time round, and that it also permanently changed my ability-level with other stuff, so I’m nodding in agreement there - that works in my reality-bubble!

And the “visualisation” taight by almost every LoA teacher is a form of targeted daydreaming, stimulating desire for the goal to a higher level where it can be felt emotionally, which is another thing I’ve found is important to actually manifesting stuff, and the anchoring for that is the practice of “gratitude” which is not a grovelling attitude that the universe has kindly given you the things you have right now, but just a way of focusing emotionally on things we’d otherwise take for granted, and cease having emotions about because they’re the status quo for us.

If the only emotions we feel are want and desire, which have a flipside of affirming lack, then we’re going to manifest more to lack and want, but if we affirm the emotion of opulence (even in really minor ways, a good cup of coffee or warm dry socks) then we’re using our emotions to project forth that state of “having much” which then seems to unlock manifestation of more of the same…

Again, talking from my experiences there of what always seems to work, may not be applicable for everyone, but I found many people have the concept of gratitude wrong and think it’s like being forced to kiss your smelly old uncle for the gift you didn’t want in the first place, when in fact there’s a really sound basis to it.

Being grateful in advance of getting something is also good, and if it’s learned (as I did) from the LoA before practicing formal magick, it’s a good way to combat post-ritual/spell doubts.

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14

Pre-gratitude sounds like a good concept, all that is left then is getting into it. Which can either be hard or easy, regarding on your basic beliefs and mindset… so maybe this does come down to the subconcious programming again.

Or any manner of mental path that guides you toward that concept of happiness and gratitude.

15

[quote=“Lady Eva, post:13, topic:4201”]If the only emotions we feel are want and desire, which have a flipside of affirming lack, then we’re going to manifest more to lack and want, but if we affirm the emotion of opulence (even in really minor ways, a good cup of coffee or warm dry socks) then we’re using our emotions to project forth that state of “having much” which then seems to unlock manifestation of more of the same…

Again, talking from my experiences there of what always seems to work, may not be applicable for everyone, but I found many people have the concept of gratitude wrong and think it’s like being forced to kiss your smelly old uncle for the gift you didn’t want in the first place, when in fact there’s a really sound basis to it.[/quote]

Gerald O’Donnell, in his Remote Viewing and Influencing courses, talks about the idea of desire vs need. It’s no question that many of the things we want and desire are so prevalent in our being that they are considered necessities. I talked about this in reference to money; while it’s pretty much a completely contrived manner of exchange, it is so ingrained in our lives that we often find ourselves “needing” money.

As such, with this need template attached to our desires, we become manically obsessive about attaining it, and each moment we haven’t materialized it is spent in an affirmation of lack. How many times have we seen “love-starved” people says things like, “I really need a girlfriend/a man”?

However, if we act from a place of naked desire, where we do NOT tie necessity to it (which, in terms of things you need, you equate even your very survival to it), then we let go of that manic chain that seemingly compounds lack consciousness.

Rather than saying, “I need money”, you walk around in a state of elevated enthusiasm based on desire. It takes pretty much “knowing” that you have despite the realization not having met up with you yet. This is in line with your opulence theory, where you learn to generate an aura of abundance.

Things like pre-gratitude, energized visualization and meditation on that desire, trust in the inherent, unlimited power you possess, removal of competitive ideals (competition arises from the paradigmatic current of limitations), and a constant assessment and readjustment of one’s feelings and mental state into abundance allows for desire to exist nakedly rather than being attached to the lack and doubt affirmations that arrive from things based in “need” consciousness.

This is also why, in my opinion, things can manifest spontaneously for people when they practice upgrading themselves without actually having a set desire. I could say that the set desire could be the upgrading itself, but this often tends to affirm itself while you practice, even if subtly. But when you practice, those desires you had, which are still there, can manifest free of the nervous constraints you rehash through thinking about it too much. Of course, you want to able to eventually operate on a level where you can consciously attend to desires while being free of those constraints, but that takes working in many of the aforementioned ways that have been stated here (or like equivalents).

So I’m not sure I would blame the desire itself, rather than the constraints tied to desires that arise from need paradigms.

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16

Well there’s levels, there’s the desire that’s excited and certain of getting what you want (or at least, not riddled with doubt and fear) and almost enjoying it in advance, and then there’s the yearning type where people feel they can’t be happy until they have that thing, so yes it’s the emotion and stuff behind it that matters.

I think the practice of being grateful (as in appreciative and renewed enthusiasm) for things you have is good practice for feeling the same emotion towards things you don’t yet have - also, it’s an old complaint against “materialism” that people will yearn for say a new car, get it, and then not be any happier, whereas if you consciously practice appreciating the things you have already, they don’t fade into the background and you’re also on a high vibration of being blessed and not radiating out emotions of lack, need, or desperation.

I can look round my home right now and see a dozen or more things where I practiced this, and then got what I wanted either completely free or at a price I’d kind of chosen in advance, or had got some unexpected cash that met the price without it being needed for anything else, so that’s why I’m enthusiastic about this stuff though of course I have off-days (or weeks) - but when I do it by the book and remember to keep my focus right, it works every time. :slight_smile:

Radiating out feelings of gratitude towards a situation resolving as you wanted also works, and there’s a whole area applying it to health as well so it goes beyond just shiny things.

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17

[quote=“Lady Eva, post:16, topic:4201”]Well there’s levels, there’s the desire that’s excited and certain of getting what you want (or at least, not riddled with doubt and fear) and almost enjoying it in advance, and then there’s the yearning type where people feel they can’t be happy until they have that thing, so yes it’s the emotion and stuff behind it that matters.

I think the practice of being grateful (as in appreciative and renewed enthusiasm) for things you have is good practice for feeling the same emotion towards things you don’t yet have - also, it’s an old complaint against “materialism” that people will yearn for say a new car, get it, and then not be any happier, whereas if you consciously practice appreciating the things you have already, they don’t fade into the background and you’re also on a high vibration of being blessed and not radiating out emotions of lack, need, or desperation.

I can look round my home right now and see a dozen or more things where I practiced this, and then got what I wanted either completely free or at a price I’d kind of chosen in advance, or had got some unexpected cash that met the price without it being needed for anything else, so that’s why I’m enthusiastic about this stuff though of course I have off-days (or weeks) - but when I do it by the book and remember to keep my focus right, it works every time. :slight_smile:

Radiating out feelings of gratitude towards a situation resolving as you wanted also works, and there’s a whole area applying it to health as well so it goes beyond just shiny things.[/quote]

Yea, we’re pretty much saying the same thing!

18

I’m thinking, when discussing magick, the idea of something being a “rule” is pretty much redundant, because we all have exceptions to those rules that work for us, would it be more helpful to phrase and therefore define these things as INGREDIENTS?

So, some work in harmony with others, some are a known quantity that seem to always turn out when used in a reliable recipe, others maybe clash (e.g., arguably, the idea we’re in our own universes compared to the 4th Power/concealment stuff), some of us prefer certain types and always get good results with the ones that are most to our taste.

But there’s never anything wrong with ripping up the recipe books, and striking out into new territory with new makin’s added to the dish. Or maybe the fact it’s nearly teatime is influencing my thoughts…

19

THen you just end up with rules for ingredients. If you want rules, you have to keep generalizing until it’s almost useless.

Like my beloved “Everything requires your attention to exist”. I feel confident calling that a rule which applies to everyone no matter what. Yet it’s so generalized, it’s hard to tell how useful it can be.

20

Care to explain me how everything requires attention to exist? because nothing actually does.

Your concept of existing just seems to be limited on your own perceiving of something, observing and perceiving are to me only observing and perceiving something that already existed - otherwise i couldn’t have found it to observe unless i made it. But whatever that is only rambling the point was i’m eager to hear if anyone has explanation how the hell would something need to have any kind of attention to exist?

There might be small stones or leaves somewhere dropped from my clothes, i haven’t noticed or paid any attention to it - bet they don’t give a shit and still exist.

Its hard to understand why this philosophical thinking, that doesn’t even lead to any real answers would help in magic… Well maybe i can understand after explanations.