I have one question.
A demon/angel/elementals - All spirits,Yes?
What qualifies a Spirit to be a God?
Arenāt all spirits in a relative sense God?
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Itās a label, like ādemonā - usually applied to beings who will answer prayer, without requiring elaborate evocation or soul travel to specific locations in order to make contact. Thatās my take on it anyway.
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All FORMS, all THINGS - catshit, dead bodies, murder, vomit, you name it - all within the All, therefore, all, also, āGod.ā
Hence the practices of some Hindu and Buddhist sects (and probably others, lost to history) who meditated upon these things to break the aversion.
When you truly see ALL FORMS as manifestations of God, then you begin to grasp the truth of the All within YOU.
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Thanks!
Itās just i am sometimes confused when people say some āgodsā were demonized
It made it seem like demons are low ranking when compared to gods.
So i was like - What makes one God? 
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Wisdom! [quote=āLady_Eva, post:43, topic:19409ā]
When you truly see ALL FORMS as manifestations of God, then you begin to grasp the truth of the All within YOU.
[/quote]
Totally agree.
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This is a general open question.
If you do not believe in anything that is fine. It is your prerogative and choice. I do not down anyone no matter what they believe. My question is simple. If you donāt believe it is anything other than your own mind and you think it is all bologna thatās fine, but why are you here, and why do you feel it is imperative that you not only state your beliefs but feel compelled to argue your point with those who do believe or may be still undecided to prove your point and change their belief to yours. That is really unnecessary and unfair. It reminds me of a certain group of individuals who go door to door tdying to force their beliefs down everyoneās throat. If you have doubt or DONāT believe, fine. State your point. But DONāT sit here in a room that is supposed to be filled with open minded MAGICKAL people and force your oppinion down everyoneās throat until you hear yes. you are right. You are not going to get it from me and i am going to say hey. Thatās enough if no one else will. Thank you for your oppinion. If you want to leave, have a happyā¦ but donāt start preaching until you hear what you want from everyone. THAT DOUBT hurts those who are just beginning and for them i am speaking out. MAYBE I sm taking this whole thread wrong but ā¦ enough is enough. Believe or DONāT. Stay or leave. State your case and move on. Donāt brow beat those who do believe and want to try. How dare you.
What quantifies something as a god?
What quantifies something as less than a god?
What quantifies a thing as beyond a god.
Regardless of origin pondering on this in meditation can lead down some strange rabbit holes if you really wanna know. Then the trick is to learn to apply what you learn practically thats where it gets fun. 
2 things though.
- Some shit once learned and experienced you can not unlearn!
- You do weird shit weird shit will happen.
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āThe truth is out there.ā 
Esteemed forum member Baalās doubt was as real and divine a creative clay as that which we use to structure in evocation, AND it had the advantage that the mass-observed shared ārealityā follows certain grooves in which things take their most probable course, which in this case was to obey the clockwork reality, in which magick isnāt real.
@nikki, I hear you but I donāt, personally (not mod-hat or anything) see what Baal prosted as browbeating, he did the work after all - tried an experiment, gave it time and effort. And that would be enough IF doubt/belief werenāt themselves factors in magick, along with probability and anomalous knowledge, for reasons outlined at length above. 
āI canāt make this work, this sucks!ā is the sacred mantra of every student of a new art, everā¦ 
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Hahaā¦
Weird shit always happen to me even when i do normal things hehehe 
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Shit! That dart hit a perfect score.
Thanks for the enlightening words,Lady Eva
But.
Iād still like someone to prove Baal wrong 
By getting the exercise right hehe
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I hear you. I was just seeing it going back and forth point by poiint line after kine of if someine said why they believe it being challenged and ādebunked.ā If you doubt fine, but donāt start trying to get everyone else to do it too. That is the dame as trying to get everyone to believe. Didnāt we go through enough if that already? Im sorry. But considering how hard we struggle to keep doubt at bay, even us seasoned practitioners deal with it frim time to time, I find it at the least rude and at the worst completely destructive of a new practitioners abilities and even future in the craft. We have been through enough fighting to be ourselves and believe what we do. I just saw the arguing back and forth as detrimental to others abilities and growth. It was not the original post i was complaining about. Maybe Iām just a bit too sensitive today. It has been a rough one.
Peace
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At the risk of seeming like I Know it all (far from it) I would have to say that I actually encourage this. Iām one who believes in testing things to be true and I believe one of the best ways to do that is by going against something or someone who disagrees with you
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And to me, therein lies the value of his post, and the exposition it drew forthā¦
Heās given voice to what someone else out there uis undoubtedly feeling, as well, but cannot post for some reason.
Itās like the repeated questions by new members, each time they draw an answer, itās also being read by many more who canāt post, maybe because they lack the confidence, are afraid, or live in one of the many regions of the world where being active on a forum like this is dangerous.
The āno such thing as a stupid questionā concept!!
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You are right Lady Eva. Like i said. I have had a really hard day and emotionally Iām fried. I am probably just ā¦ okā¦ I AM being to sensitive. Thanks.
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Hope your day and weekend gets better.
And I see what your saying about doubt.
Regarding the post, most if not all practitioners end up at this kind of crossroads at some point figuring out a magical concept model that works for them.
Ussally this is seen from a few angles
Energetic model
Spiritual model
Psychological model
Mixed model
Likely there are more im unaware of but these are the ones ive seen come up over time. I tend to take a mixed perspective that mutates concepts as fast as new evidence presents itself. But it works for me.
I see doubt like I am starting to see problems in my life. As opportunities to do the magick, test theories and see what works. When the stranger stuff works the doubts tend to shut up pretty quick.
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Dont worry about all that. If anyone ever has any doubts, i created just the thread to dismantle it!
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This is actually why magicians like Bardon recommend a firm foundation and control of their own mind and astral senses.
If you donāt have the proper control over your astral senses, when you call a spirit, how can you know if you just made the spirit up/is it the right spirit, is it a separate consciousness from you, or is it just a projection of your own unconsciousness?
Also there are spirits that can teach you how to control the elements like literal winds, fire, water and such, not to mention astral and physical invulnerability, along with a carefully mapped out plan of the cosmos from within the astral plane.
So, when in your childhood(which is where your subconscious would draw from) were you taught all these things?
Surely, not by your parents?
Iāve had Bael appear to me in full physical sight w/o calling upon him.
Iāve had the same thing happen with Ganesha, he just showed up out of nowhere (not in meditation or TGS, nor calling upon, nor thinking about him)
Iāve had Lucifer showing me his sigil over and over in my mindās eye, and then when that didnāt work he started literally using my phone to spell out his NAME perfectly in the search bar at the top. Even my mother stared talking about the new show Lucifer(sheās a christian btw) None of this stopped until I called upon him proper in answer and heard his proposal to me.
Iāve asked Lilith for her help in giving me a spirit lover.
That night while sleeping a presence came into my room, approached my bed, grabbed me astrally from my physical body, took me to a different place on the astral, then proceeded to mark my body with different glyphs and such which she said was marking me as hers so others couldnāt interfere with our relationship.
Iāve also asked Lilith for her help in other ways to strengthen my resolve and empower me. That night during sleep she came and grabbed me, flew me thru some rings in the astral, then dropped me in a pit or lake of fire or magma.
During that time I had some type of addiction, but I didnāt need it anymore after this happend (I tried for years to get rid of this addiction with subliminals and such)
Iāve called upon Belial for his empowerment and his help getting me out of my body astrally as well. He came, took me out of my body astrally, dropped me off in a spot in the astral somewhere dark, watched to see what Iād do when some shady characters came by, then after I realized that they couldnāt see me for some reason, he then took me to a hideout of his I guess, where he introduced me formally to other demons and such and I was given something to eat, and I gave him something in return.
These are just some examples of concrete powerful results and other consciousnesses(spirits) that I found were quite separate from my own and have their own agendas for me besides my own, yet responded when I asked for help.
What have you been asking these spirits for besides monetary every day things? Why not ask them( if you havenāt) to take you to their realm and learn from them astrally (try Belial) then see if itās just a figment of your imagination.
The problem Iāve found with the theta gamma synch is that itās a cheat code for getting in a proper state for evocation, however it doesnāt automatically equate with oneās ability to know whatās really going on while this state is active.
As for why they care to help us: The more attention they get from us the more powerful they become, if they can make a pact with you then both parties benefit because you are in effect serving them in your own way, most spirits are usually immoral, the little things can quickly add up to building trust with them so that they can work on the bigger aspects of your ascent by you giving them your permission since theyāve already helped you, and as E. A. said, they are interested in exercising their powers in any way they can when on this plane of existence and they canāt do that properly if no one knows of them nor calls upon them.
As far as your little experiment: Remote viewing can work, but without giving someone or a spirit at least your name, then you are setting yourself up for a high probability for failure.
All they have to go on is: find this person that calls himself/herself Baal on the balg forum. I donāt know what he/she looks like, and I donāt know where they live either, but find them, describe to me what they look like, tell me their real first name, and tell me what their zodiac sign is! Spirits are not all knowing. Good luck Arianna
For remote viewing done(at least with human psychics) : you need to know what target your after, and what they look like at least before you can have success.
If you donāt know what youāre looking for, how will you know when youāve found it?
Not saying that Arianna canāt do it, especially if she was that accurate with Velotak w/o any sort of link to that person, but itās unlikely that she will be able to know thru the spirit she calls upon your first name, what you look like, and your correct zodiacal sign, the way youāve set it up.
I hope she is able to do this anyway somehow and get everything correct to prove myself wrong about this and you as well
Instead you might want to try showing a trusted magician what you look like and your name,( if they donāt already know) then have them call the spirit up, then ask it to find you and report back where your at and what youāre wearing at the time, then confirm or deny this with said magician.
Good luck either way \m/
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Some of my recent discouraging moments were during a few āchannelingsā. I thought the messages came only from my mind, albeit trying to leave that impression aside. Btw Iām about to try aids/road openers.
In any case, there were magical authors e.g. Regardie of that idea so, luckily, it isnāt a premise affecting magic (except for the knowledge obtainable from entities).
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I have received information I did not previously have and from a random spirit none the less. It was all in line with what we were talking about as well. I wrote the post in haste at the time so the wording is poorly written and I forgot to mention some things about the experience. At the time I just wanted to share the experience before I forgot about it. The Bernie Handfield Experiment
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