As I look over the Luciferian Grimoire of the Ars Gotia, I attempted to lay out a plan for constructing the Solomonic circle on a concrete floor. Because it would be painted, I would like to be able to lie down in it. This would make the circling 9 feet in diameter. When you consider that the triangle of manifestation is supposed to be 2feet from the circle whether Morth, South, East or West, and that some rituals require an alter, I figured I’d need a space 19X19 feet in order to do it. Are the dimensions and directions of the triangles of manifestation necessary to bring the spirit to manifest? Also, the writing in the grimoire that is located on the serpent are all the different names of Yahweh. Is this threatening the spirit? I want them to feel welcome. Can you cast light on this, please? I’d really like to create a place where I can do all my rituals, and have all I need at all times in that place.
If you’re using names of god you’re automatically evoking their function of binding spirits by the authority of YHVH, unless you have conceptualized a personal system where thise names have a function other than that.
The triangle in the Ars Goetia is not a triangle of manifestation. It isn’t even used except with disobedient spirits.
Are you talking about the Lesser key of Solomon, the grimoire that constrains demons by the power of God? Because that isn’t Luciferian. If you are indeed talking about the original grimoire and not newer Luciferian takes, then yes the dimensions specified in the grimoire should be adhered to. The triangle should be 3x3x3 feet. The circle can be brought down to 6 feet in diameter. The reasoning for the dimensions are their relationship to the number nine. Which has its own significance. In the grimoires, such symbolism is indeed important in the evocation of the spirits. However, you can safely omit them in modern evocation.
That is what I was just thinking now. If one is truly on the left hand path, then constraining the spirit would not be a necessity, or desired, whatsoever. This would be especially when dealing with invocation . This is where I was confused. So, instead, altars could be set up in the 4 directions where the triangles would be. I’m saying this out of a need for proper space in order to do the full evocations. So I think then, it is safe to say that the circle in the Ars Goetia is not the proper tool to use. Thank you for any insights you can offer.
Thank you for pointing out the relationship with the number 3.
Well what version are you using? If you’re using the original with invocations to God, then no.
Who is the author of the grimoire you’re talking about?
I’m not sure why you think that’s the case. If anything, the self-deification of the left hand path would even more imply that you should resort to methods of force to make the spirits do your will if they are are deliberately being difficult. If I am a god, then ‘I refuse’ is not an acceptable answer to my demands from the lips of any being. The quite contrary attitude of many so-called ‘left hand path’ magicians is quite astonishing, really.
I don’t believe it is necessary to force a spirit to do my will, if it is already his will. If it is his will, then he won’t have to be forced. A left handed path magician is in league with the powers of hell. They serve him because he serves them. It is, in a sense, mutualism.
I’m not sure why you think that’s the case. If anything, the self-deification of the left hand path would even more imply that you should resort to methods of force to make the spirits do your will if they are are deliberately being difficult. If I am a god, then ‘I refuse’ is not an acceptable answer to my demands from the lips of any being. The quite contrary attitude of many so-called ‘left hand path’ magicians is quite astonishing, really.[/quote]
Well it just isn’t always going to be his will. It is absolutely necessary, on the other hand, to constrain and bind a difficult and disobedient spirit, because if you summon him and let him be a a little bastard when you find out he is one, he’s going to wreck you.
If it is his will, then he won't have to be forced.
I’m not interested in his will. Just think about what you are saying for a moment. What you are suggesting is functionally no different to the approach of what you call the ‘right hand path’ except with one set of beings exchanged with another.
A left handed path magician is in league with the powers of hell.
A left hand path magician is in league with whatever powers will serve his will. A left hand path magician will consider any and all methods available to him to accomplish that will.
Do you really think that the hierarchies of Hell are not built upon superiority and dominion? Do you think that’s a relationship of mutual service between Lucifer and some lesser spirit in one of his subordinate’s legions?
They serve him because he serves them. It is, in a sense, mutualism.
Many spirits from the Goetia will NOT serve you, no matter how nice you are in return. It is simply in their nature to not answer requests or care for your grovelling. They are beings of power and force that only respond to power and force. No, if a Goetic spirit is being difficult despite my most amicable efforts, I will get its king, - or worse - to kick its fucking ass.
It is my goddamned human birthright to constrain the universe to my will by the mere fact that I am born able to do it.
Yeah, the Four Kings …
Tell me how often Paimon has not granted ones requests of him? That’s because he’s a great fucking mature and powerful spirit who knows the score and gets no petty kicks out of being a little brat who will only aid you whenever it takes his fancy.
To clarify: a fiery, Martian spirit is going to respond well to the fiery, Martian power within you. Savvy?
- Lucipher is the father of all devills, he may not be called, for he is in the depths of Hell, yet by him other devills may be coniured and bound, for all devills doe reverence and worship this devill Lucyfer and that with a kind of maiestie, they all obey him, for so hath God ordayned and appointed to them.
Binding Goetic spirits by the name of Lucifer? A passage expunged from Weyer and hence from the Ars Goetia
Well, what he’s saying is somewhat true. But you can get a demon to help you out with constraint. It is perfectly possible to have a mutually beneficial relationship.
Yet, it is equally possible that a demon could be very disobedient. You can either find another demon or constrain him by those greater in power. I personally prefer to have a relationship with my spirits, so it’s not much of problem for me.
Ok. For those of you I may have offended, please understand I am humble enough to know I need to learn. So, getting all bent out of shape because I may have different views than you do in the early stages of my development is completely unnecessary. But to answer a couple of you:
- Yes, I believe that there is a dark heiarchy. A house divided against itself can not stand. Even in the goetia it states that Paimon is “very obedient to Lucifer.” This eludes to others being “somewhat” obedient to Lucifer.
- The grimoire I am referring to is Michael Ford’s Luciferian goetia.
- I’m in a pact for a certain work in exchange for help by a high ranking demon. In this instance I don’t believe constraining is necessary.
- Lastly, for the one who said he is a black magician, said I’m groveling, and carried on with such an attitude of proud superiority, remember that when Satan argued with Michael about taking the body of Moses, the angel answered " The Lord rebuke You!" Never a railing proud word came off his lips. It would serve you well to adjust your pride.
[quote=“Euoi, post:14, topic:3556”]Well, what he’s saying is somewhat true. But you can get a demon to help you out with constraint. It is perfectly possible to have a mutually beneficial relationship.
…I personally prefer to have a relationship with my spirits, so it’s not much of problem for me.[/quote]
^ This.
The Left-Hand Path doesn’t automatically require compulsion in the same way that traditional RHP methods do, because beings classed as “demonic” are not usually seen as fallen angels whose sole task is to drag the unwary magician into hell by tempting him or her with earthly power and glory - this is true whether or not you believe in Luciferian concepts.
Of course all options are open to LHP mages - command, threaten, or torture included - but experience seems to show a lot of us that entities are willing, and even eager, to express their powers in our lives along the areas of interest they’re famed for, without any kind of compulsion needed.
If I have a choice between having a willing ally, or a slave who only works with the whip on his back, I’ll choose the former, especially when I know he or she has as great an investment in the outcome as I do.
This goes even more so for working with godforms, nature spirits, spirits of the dead and so on, where finding the right alliances, and building relationships of mutual trust is paramount and also relatively easy to do.
There will always be beings so inimical to everything in our reality (the spiritual equivalent of ebola or plague) that a blasting rod or similar tool is necessary, but to treat every being, no matter how demonic, as though it were this hostile, intractable and virulent is a big mistake.
Lady Eva, this is exactly where I was going with my “pride” statement. You don’t play whack-a-mole in a mine field. You don’t play kick-the-can with a grenade. Thank you, once again, for clarity.
You’ee using Ford’s Goetia?
Well then, feel free to switch out as long as it fits in with Luciferian paradigm. If you feel uncomfortable with Ford’s retainment of the God names, change them for those high up in the demonic hierarchy.
The altar isn’t a point of manifestation. The triangle is s place where the demon can definitively manifest. Think of it as putting in a door in an open space. Without it, he can come up anywhere, with it, you’ll know exactly where the spirit is going to manifest.
[quote=“Euoi, post:18, topic:3556”]You’ee using Ford’s Goetia?
Well then, feel free to switch out as long as it fits in with Luciferian paradigm. If you feel uncomfortable with Ford’s retainment of the God names, change them for those high up in the demonic hierarchy.
The altar isn’t a point of manifestation. The triangle is s place where the demon can definitively manifest. Think of it as putting in a door in an open space. Without it, he can come up anywhere, with it, you’ll know exactly where the spirit is going to manifest.[/quote]
Thank you. That answers my question.
And if you or anyone else wants to play with some UPG of mine developed from working with demons in recent months, try a six-sided (hexagonal) piece of thick black board or black-painted wood in place of a triangle - do NOT be tempted 
to draw in a Star of David inside it, you want the solid shape with no markings or names.
Like this, straight side (not angled point) facing towards you, unless you’re guided to do it differently:
You can place it on the ground, a table, whatever’s relevant with your set-up, but in this method I’ve been told to not use any other symbols that may impact upon it (so, don’t place it on a circle of godnames like a traditional goetic circle, or on a cloth that has any symbols of any kind) - it’s a standalone piece that contains its own cosmogony.
I’ve been told demons will find this particularly welcoming for those of us who don’t default to constraining them, but usual disclaimers apply that this is my UPG only - I’m sharing it in case you find the triangle idea still too redolent of methods you don’t like.