Demons are mostly for harm, why try to ask them to help?

New Magician Help & Introductions
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@Velvetvillain

what you say is correct, but i would like to add succubi are demons from hell, they are psychic and they have a great knowledge to calculate the future.

They are mostly used to give harm to individual and or to take long-lasting revenge.

Mostly they donot connect with normal human beings, they have their own way of thinking which usually donot match with anyone.

I suggest peoples not to take these entities lightly because once you are connected with them, its difficult to break the connection and never ever make any commitment with themā€¦

Friendship is ok but usually they dont do friendship if you dont feed them on your life force/ prana

In short, these entities are prana hungryā€¦ they dont come in relationship easilyā€¦. They believe on give n take lawā€¦

different peoples have different experience, i am writing here what is generalā€¦
In Asian countries like mineā€¦. we have so many, we are overloaded with them

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I will disagree with this. There are no ā€œdemons from hellā€ thatā€™s just a myth. Hell definitely exists itā€™s much worse than the myths say. So please refrain from throwing it around as a fear mongering tactic, that is not very well received here. Regarding your other advice, aside from the claims about Prana and ā€œnever making any commitments with them everā€, I actually agree with the core message of ā€œdonā€™t take them lightlyā€. You should never take any spirit lightly. They are not some harmless fully benevolent creatures that will never harm you, they have their own agendas and ideas. This does not mean that they are evil ā€œdemonsā€ from The Bible, rather that they will not always look out for your best interests if you do not do so yourself. You should always endeavor to act like you yourself are a living God because because they will see that respect and respect you back.

The main piece of advice I would give is do not interact with any entities without 1st setting up wards and protection as well as doing preparatory immersion and understanding the dangers that come with. That applies especially to entities that involve sexual magick as that is very powerful and as such can be used to incredibly violent effects to damage your life. However, this is not something that is exclusive to any spirit, rather it is a general rule so applying it specifically to the entities mentioned in this thread is in my opinion, not effective.

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I agrea with the idea of worshipping these entities (or any for that matter) as being incredibly dangerous. I do not have enough information on specifically these entities to make comments on the rest of this post however so do forgive the short reply. :sweat_smile:

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I consider that Hell is a symbolic concept and we should not give it more power than necessary. However, I respect each personā€™s beliefs on the matter. If for you, succubi are something evil and close to the concept of demon, I understand your position. Historically they do not have the best reputation in the world.

However the entity you are talking about seems to be close to vampirism and it also seems to be very common in Asia, where you live. Could you tell us more about these creatures in your folklore? I think it would be very interesting.

With succubi and incubi, vital energy enters into a kind of cycle where both they and you feed. If the energy flow is unidirectional something very bad is going on. Maybe you should banish that entity from your side.

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Topic moved out into itā€™s own thread, as itā€™s off topic for the Original Post.
Carry on :slight_smile:

@princeaddriano Please remember preaching and moralising are against the rules in this forum. You are allowed your opinion of course, but please donā€™t derail other peopleā€™s topic with ā€œwarningsā€.

We ALL know what certain types think of our practices, but youā€™ll find most of this forum has 10 years of solid history of people working beneficially with entities that these types call demonsā€¦ you might be in the wrong place if you came to ā€œeducateā€ us.

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The impression that demons are ā€˜mostly for harmā€™ comes from these outdated Abrahamic religions like Christianity, Islam & Judaism. There are actually a lot of demons or as they used to be called before these Abrahamic religions demonised them, Gods, that can actually help you with a lot of positive things.

For example there are demons that help with bringing more money to you and to help you with any business matters, such as Clauneck, Lucifuge Rofocale and Bune, there are demons to help with court cases like Belial, demons to help you with anything art or literature related like Paimon, demons to help you with attracting love or self-love like Sitri and with a simple google search, the list goes on and on.

Demons are not mostly for harm. Generally, when you make a promise with a demon or any spirit you should aim to keep it, even with other human beings when you make a promise you should keep it.
I also want to add that most demons do not feed off of your life force energy, itā€™s spiritual parasites that do that, for example the types of lower-level entities you see during sleep paralysis would feed off of your fear, demons donā€™t feed off of your energy like that, though small blood offerings are common in occultism, itā€™s viewed more as an offering.

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Agree with everything you have said here, however, I would add that blood offerings are commonly, at least on this forum, seen as very very valuable And in my personal opinion, should be used only for entities you respect implicitly and immensely. Not just any old entity who you like the fantasy idea of but entities who have truly proven themselves to you time and time again in massive and undeniable ways, that you also truly respect and have a very positive relationship with.

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Sorry, but malicious spirits, aka demons, have historically been around long before any of the JCI religions so you can hardly put the blame on them. Demons exist in almost every human mythology, and were believed to be responsible for the ills of mankind. The Native tribes spoke of demons in their stories. The Sumerians, Babylonians, and Akkadians, believed in demons (and are, in fact, the inspiration for what eventually became the Judaic mythology). The Japanese had all sorts of demons lurking in their forests, lakes and valleys. The ancient Greeks had demons, and devils, and monsters. You can find demons in stories from practically every corner of the world, and yes, in almost every story, they are said to be mostly harmful.

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Soā€¦parasites like vampires are okay, but demons arenā€™t?

I see a lot of opinion here, maybe even dogma, but no references. Could you tell us where this is coming from?

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Because sometimes JCI and the followers act worse than demons. Just saying, spiritual pride and legalism are two of the worst attitudes that spring up in the holy places. Itā€™s, that and feeling abandoned and left for dead made me come back here.

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Everything has a price, some seek out the dark from their own feeling of rejection, others for power, others for uniqueness. The results of these choices are rarely considered at the time such actions are taken. Once such an action is taken influences are easily made to align others and so on and so forth.

Zen

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Advisory: long reply

I donā€™t see them used mostly for harm or even mostly for good. I see them used both ways here.

Generalizations generally fail.

Summer is hot until you have a unusual cold snap (could cite historical evidence if Iā€™m asked BUT itā€™s not relevant to this thread and magical pet se so Iā€™m not citing it now).

Deserts are always dry and hot but then thereā€™s a snowfall or rainfall in one.

Generalizations are always disproven by their exceptions, so why generalize that demons are from hell or why generalize demons are for harming?

Just as each magickian is an individual so are demons, angels, gods, goddesses and even aliens (if they exist). Treat each as they prove themselves to be and donā€™t treat a being human or inhuman like a villain until you know if they are one by their actions with regards to you yourself specifically.

All you have is the say so of people (both historical, literarily and currently in various places) who have vested interests in their claims. Who would call an exorcist and pay him if they thought the demon lover/spouse of a person was helping them and good for them?

How would preachers get their massive collections of money if they didnā€™t scare people about demons, the devil, hell and how you gotta do this or that because their holy book says so?

I forget who it was but someone (not me) once said take each as they prove themselves to be not as we think they ought to be (my wording might be a little paraphrased but I know thereā€™s a saying by someone that basically says just that).

Besides which, people (and likely entities) are inclined to treat people as they are treated, if you treat them like a villain theyā€™ll be a villain to you. People tend to live up or down to our expectations (relative to those expectations) and often have the view why bother trying to change the mind of someone whoā€™s minds already made up. That being the case why wouldnā€™t demons respond similarly?

Why not take them as they are to you not as stories by people with vested interests claim they are?

In my own experience, spirits are not always malevolent or out to harm they donā€™t thirst to do evil they are similar to us in that they have positive and negative qualities they arenā€™t all good or all bad just like humanity they are both depending on the situation. I know the entity I had an experience was not malevolent or evil it was actually kind of nice and good in its own way.

Add: and to avoid making a long reply longer I will not go into details of my experience here. I mentioned them on other threads already.

Last add: as to why people ask them for help with whateverā€¦ usually all other alternatives have already failed and itā€™s ask the demon to help or accept the situation and leave it as it stands and depending on the situation thatā€™s not always an acceptable outcome (leaving it as is).

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@DarkestKnight @Niantiel69
I do believe both of your definitions of demons are valid

There are two trains of thoughts but truth in both

Demons ARE found in almost every belief and system older than Christianityā€¦ Take your pick. (Darkest knight is correct there) however many modern day demons can be traced back to pagan gods and weā€™re actually quite respectable and helpful in there own but ā€œabrahamic beliefsā€ took the concept of demons and applied it to them as well.

So in the since of those pagan gods considered demons today I agree is outdated abrahamic propaganda.

I do so however find this propaganda of ā€œall demons mean harmā€ as equated with sayā€¦
---- agent Smith telling Neo in the matrix that Morpheus is dangerous and not to be trusted.

Then again I look at the abrahamic God as the self righteous architect/demiurge so Iā€™m a tad bit biased. But Iā€™ll keep eating my red pill. :upside_down_face:

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There are a couple of hells, in various mythos I believe, the judeo hell to me is the Infernal empire, the Greek hell to me is Tartarus, controlled by the god of the same name. Etc.

There is such a thing as a race of demons in my view, but thatā€™s what they are, a race, each with individual likes and dislikes and lives.

I assume the OP is coming from a Christian perspective, if that is the case, I strongly suggest the OP read Leviticus and the chapter on Revelations.

Reading Leviticus, you learn that God was not peaceful with the Israelites, on the contrary.

Reading Revelations, I believe from what I know about it, that you are shown many beings have their purpose in that story, if Iā€™m not mistaken, Abaddon is mentioned being sent by God, but Iā€™m not sure.

Demons, just like angels, can hurt you or help you if they so wish

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My point with the text you quoted, is that a blood offering is not viewed as something harmful in occultism, but more as an offering, as I wrote. Not that blood offerings arenā€™t something serious, that was not my point. Though thatā€™s true.

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Yes, that is factual, but the rise of the knowledge and awareness of demons seems to have been brought to the surface by the religions I mentioned. The fact that demons have been around for centuries, this is not to my knowledge at all, I was aware that specific cultures, separate from the topic of religion, have demons in their mythology, but I was talking more from a standpoint of the influence that religion has on how people still view demons today, which is as 100% evil, blood-sucking, soul-sucking nasty creatures and thatā€™s not true for a lot of them, especially when we factor out a lot of folklore tales.

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does that include the mentions of them in the Grimoirium Verum, in the other Grimoire books that I canā€™t remember the name of? How about in the testaments of Solomon? The demons a lot of occultists work with, which is what Iā€™m trying to stick to the subject of, arenā€™t going around harming everyone, as mentioned in my first comment on this post. Folklore and is something I believe to be separate.

The demons put us through tests to strengthen us or for other reasons, but not for harm. Demons are absolutely not mostly for harm. That would again, be parasites. Sure some demons would freely go around harming people, not the higher ranking demons anyway.

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Thatā€™s the point.
I would like to add that the concept of absolute good and absolute evil is very manichean and also obsolete. We canā€™t reduce these two concepts to something so simple.

For example, sexuality has been seen -with few exceptions- as something inferior, dangerous, and treated in a pejorative way. And that is one of the reasons why incubi and succubi are so scary to the masses, even though they can be worked with magically very well. Same for entities like Belial, or any famous demon.

However, it is true that our ancestors needed to personify absolute evil and attribute it to a deity or a demon. It was a way of putting a face to their most primal fears. Another example, Lilith was linked to miscarriages and sudden deaths in babies, but it has nothing to do with the Lilith that many magicians work with.

I have been interested in the left hand path for years. And I am increasingly convinced that self-deification does not get along with separating evil from good like water from oil. There is a vastness of shades in between.

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I completely agree with everything youā€™ve wrote, you took my point and explained it in a simpler to understand way.

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I disagree with most of what you said.

This seems like alot of hearsay, have you actually worked with demons or infernal spirits enough to form this opinion? Or is this just views you heard from somewhere else and are sharing here?

I work very closely with demons and Iā€™m lucky enough to have the friendship of a few. They arenā€™t strictly for harm at all either.

Marbas and Buer are excellent healers. Most Goetic spirits teach some things. They can reconcile friends and enemies, plenty of positive things.

I guess basically it just sounds to me like RHP based fear talking with what you said.

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