Why I’m scared of Lilith

Spirits, Evocation & Possession
44

I need to learn more about this. I never learned how to roll with rejection because I was specifically trained to want approval from the system. I am very quick too fell defeated and I don’t enjoy the process at all, and I never figured out a way to enjoy it or anything similar. I deleted my Linkedin 5 years ago because I hated talking to scumbag recruiters who couldn’t even spell my name right even though they had it right in front of them because my email address had my name spelled correctly in it.

My interests are so rare, that I feel I can sift through all of the people and not get a hit at all. Then I have to figure out how to adjust my expectations or change myself to fit their expectations.

I really don’t want to go through the exercise at all until I have an idea what to do after I get rejected by everybody.

45

I’ve been taught that if a woman rejects you, it’s more than a rejection. She can turn it around and make it into a harassment accusation.

As I’ve said in my original post, I’m autistic, so I don’t have an innate understanding of the unwritten social rules. This makes it very easy to cross a line because I don’t even perceive one. So, I don’t really what I’m doing.

It goes further than basic stuff like non-consensual touching or maintaining appropriate distance. Just last night, I was at a virtual munch. A man was talking about taking a younger woman to a club. I told a short story of a woman I went out with who was bipolar. She wanted me to take her to a goth club I told her about. I did, but it wasn’t all too fun.

To summarize my message, I said that if you personally take a woman to a club she’s never been to, and she drinks, you become liable for her. Especially if she’s younger than you. So, I warned against it. One woman called me an incel and accused of sharing anti-woman beliefs. I was then asked to leave. I’m still shaken up.

Basically, I put myself out there, dared to participate in the conversation, and in my eyes I was punished for trying. Yes, someone will have a difference of opinion. But calling someone an incel is very extreme. You’re basically saying they’re a potential domestic terrorist. And when you verbally Ascociate someone with incels like Eliot Rodger, you could damage their reputation beyond repair.

However, this is my point. To me, rejection can cause actual harm. Social, emotional, possibly legal. So, can you blame me for being hyper vigilant? I’m really trying to keep myself safe. I don’t have a lot of protection.

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46

Yeah I been labeled autistic too. I currently reject the label as being inaccurate. We can’t determine whether or not we have an innate understanding of social queues because psychiatry hasn’t developed a theory of mind yet.

If we use MBTI as a theory of mind it would be a moot issue because we would have preferred cognitive functions and less preferred cognitive functions we can still use.

I been chased out of clubs with fake harassment accusations, but it is never taken to the police because I always had the evidence to prove it is a lie. I am not even banned most of the time, but after that all of your references become worthless and you are just there to pull the wagon, so I just leave.

47

you can, its called common sense

48

I went to a goth club back home for a couple of years. It hosted a pagan meet up once a month. I always felt insecure there, but never in any real danger.

One night I went and realized I never managed to make friends there. Later on, I got into a discussion with a bouncer. He mentioned that he’s seen me around and that I’ve made some of the girls feel uncomfortable. It broke my heart.

I left after the conversation was over. To make sure I salvage some good time, I went to a strip club. I was met by a man in his late 30s. He brought a girl over to dance for me. Unfortunately it made me feel worse. The thought that I would offend her ran through my head. I felt like a monster who’d only hurt her.

I was emotional at the moment. I was anxious and frustrated, and needed someone to talk to. But this was a strip club. No one cared about what I was going through. Or at least that’s what I thought. I felt like crying, but I couldn’t let anyone see it. I left after minutes of being there.

I drove an hour home. I cried the entire time. I was never told I wasn’t allowed back to the club. But since I believed my presence caused so much discomfort, I decided to never go back.

A week later, the country was in lock down. Months went by and my family and I eventually moved. I’m now 10 hours away from where I called home for 20 years, barely able to leave my house. I don’t know anyone but have made the attempt to supplement real human to human interaction by joining online meetups and virtual munches. The thought of that night runs through my head every day. I vowed to never return, but now I have no choice but to keep that promise.

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49

Gemini, I’m not sure if you know this, but common sense is largely subjective. I personally have my own innate idea of what’s normal and natural, and it tends to come into conflict with what others consider to be the same.

50

Common sense isn’t a theory. It has no falsification criteria.

51

I’m so sorry to read this. :heart_decoration:

You deserve better, and he was a jerk for phrasing it that way.

I truly wish I could send you a hug or something to somehow fix that, it’s a horrible thing to happen when you were going somewhere you felt safe and welcomed.

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52

look it up, you’re reading too much into this

the definition is good sense and sound judgement in practical matters

its not subjective

53

Subjective. What defines good and sound judgement?

54

Safe but not necessarily welcomed. I hoped that I’d eventually get to that point, but I never did.

I’m not gonna lie. I do make women feel uncomfortable. It doesn’t seem to take much. I try to do whatever I can to make them feel respected and give them as much space as possible, but it all just blows up in the end.

I do what I can to avoid it. However, at this point, that basically means avoiding them altogether.

When I’m out, I try to obey some very strict rules. I maintain a 6 feet distance from a woman. I keep them at the corner of my gaze. If I can help it, I go through only male cashiers. I never make one on one conversations with women. I don’t talk about specific women to other men. I’m worried that anything I do, or anything about me, will offend or frighten them. So, I treat them with discrimination.

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55

I just searched autistic dating help and got a lot of results, are there any sites which can be helpful to you?

There are self help methods by people with a problem, for people with that problem, for a great many things. You can’t be the only man with this kind of issue.

Sometimes it helps to actually learn, in steps, how to do a thing. I fixed some things about myself by following instructions like a recipe book. Life doesn’t come with a manual, sometimes step-by-step is helpful.

Also, be analytical, for example work out what you do and then work out what the person you want to be would do, or what’s modelled by someone you think is successful, and work out a strategy.

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56

Please enlighten us autists on the objective parts. If you say something like…

You will never understand because unverified mind thing

It means you don’t have a theory.

57

Unfortunately, “autism treatment” often seems to treat us all like we’re children. Programs I’ve found have tended to be very controlling. They say they know better than us and shame us when we question them.

I remember I was part of a program meant to teach job skills. Instead they used us for factory work. We paid them for the lessons upfront.

As for dating help, i feel as if so many of those programs are rather unethical. Either telling men to treat women like dirt or to let women treat us that way.

I’m sorry, but I feel very cynical towards a lot of things. Right now I’m just doing Yoga and the lbrp. After covid, I plan on going to places like a rock climbing gym and other stuff to broaden my horizons. Maybe by conquering non-related challenges, I might at least become more confident.

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58

Oof! Things like that tend to be shit, even for non-autistic people, so I can imagine they’re even worse for people who are.

I thought more something for social skills, what cues to look out for that you may not know and can learn as a skill, also how to use frames, as defined here, for example.

Everything you do, and wear, the kinds of words you use, the speed and pitch of your speech, even your body language, is a code telling other people how to treat you.

Very few people have that code perfected, most of us can learn a thing or two, and in some cases (and I was one) more than that, then see amazing results.

For example I put some stuff I’ve used in the past here: Eva’s guide to social climbing. I wasn’t born knowing these things, I learned them, I modelled them, I’ve even been known to sit down with a piece of paper and note down what someone does, how they do it, and what effect it creates that I want for myself.

I’m deeply weird.

But it gets positive results. Even done imperfectly, you have a starting point.

Also, take photos and video of yourself, any actor will do this for example to see what gestures they make give what impression, because all of your tiniest traits are sending blaring neon signals to other humans, Again, I did a post about this, and it’s material I have used, and continue to use, myself: 2 Little Tricks To Look Cool On Video & Meetings

Edit to add, I barely do this stuff any more, but for a while I worked on things in a really intense and focused way and it paid off. Don’t be afraid to treat this like a problem to solve, instead of some personal deficit. No-one’s perfect and most people are incredibly insecure, or neurotic, etc.

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59

This is the kind of stuff I feed my MBTI Si Demon with.

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60

I actually own books on the subject. However, I’m hoping an entity will make it easier to learn and practice.

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61

Okay, have you tried the Mercurial spirits? They may help with fluency of putting the knowledge into practice, verbal skill, and things like that. A Mercury Talisman might also help, using the method in Israel Regardie’s book.

Take a look at this as well and see whether you can incorporate anything: Thelemapedia: The Encyclopedia of Thelema & Magick | Path of Beth

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62

Really, I’m planning on doing that. I always say that I should invoke a god of knowledge first before anyone else. Odin and Thoth are the two options I’m most drawn to. After that, war and beauty, but I have not yet decided which.

However I feel as if I have lots of work to do till I invoke anyone else. I have to consecrate tools and laments, start a meditation practice, and master protection rites. I’m not sure what to do first, when and how long/how often.

63

Contrary to most people on this thread I will actually vouch for Lilith in such matters.
I was neither experienced in calling on demons, nor in sexual matters, yet she helped me be okay with my fetishes, feel more self love, have a more balanced view of male-female relationships and get a bit of self-confidence.
Looking at the reasons why you´re in the place you are currently in is going to be extremely hurtful, no doubt about that. But if you can accept it then it becomes a cathartic event which transforms you on a deep level and it will make interactions in the future easier. You will still have to work on yourself afterwards but having that cathartic event happen is a really big stepping stone.
If you decide to work with Lilith I would advise to be honest with her and with yourself. Honesty also means to say stuff like “I dont feel ready to confront that yet”, “I dont trust you” etc.
Thats the way I approached and I am very glad I did and it helped me immensly. Yes it will be painful but the pain will subside afterwards and you will improve from there on out.

Wishing you all the best :heart:

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