Why can powerful gods only talk to you after youve trained?

The coach cannot run for you. The chef cannot chew your food for you. The doctor cannot breathe for you. Enough analogies?

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I think a better way to put it @Titan.M correct me if I’m wrong but a better way to put it is…

@Chriss Maybe the God/Gods or Godess/Goddesses do answer but if you haven’t learnt how to communicate with them it’s kind of like if you only speak English and they are replying to you in let’s say Hindi or Malaysian or something else because that’s all they speak. You won’t get very far until 1 of you has learnt how to communicate with the other.

It’s not exactly they can’t but more like you aren’t using the same language so there’s no comprehension until you’ve done your homework, because do you expect the god/godess to do homework to contact you if your the one who wants the contact or the blessing or the help from them?

They could (if it was them wanting something from you) but it’s you wanting to connect with them right? So… you gotta learn how so it doesn’t become like white noise (incomprehensible gibberish).

Add: You aren’t alone in this, I’m still learning too, and everyone who seems to have it easy and be succeeding well they already did the homework and are on to the next assignment. That’s all it is. Like the guy born in 2000 is ahead of you in bdays and age if you were born in 2001 let’s say, not cuz he’s better it’s cuz he was there before you got there (and had more practice/time under his belt).

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The problem is you have zero experience running and are asking a Olympic level coach to show you how to run. He wants you to run yourself before you get on the level where is coaching makes sense.

If you don’t have the discipline and will power to work then why would a spirit talk to you. Work on yourself first.

Have you tried summoning a spirit?

There’s an evocation ritual on the forum that I used with great success try that out and run for yourself and see if the coach responds.


Just do the work to communicate with them and stop complaining.

Complaining isn’t going to get them to communicate (or at least I don’t think it will).


I cant really understand how you say this just beneath a post where I explained why this analogy does not work for what Im talking about here.
Its more like: why cant the coach show me how one runs? Why cant the cook show me how one chews food? Why cant the doctor show me how one breaths?

I appreciate you coming in and trying to translate (hehe) between Titan and me. But while I understand your analogy I again feel like its off point.
My main point was that gods can do all kinds of things (like help you get a job, a gf, completely change your life), yet they cant contact you UNLESS you have trained for it. That, for me, is incomprehensible because how can one be so incredibly powerful, yet be stopped in ones tracks by the fact that the practitioner doesnt speak their language? My question would be more like: how can they be so powerful but lack the ability to speak my language?

In my mind a good coach would be able to show you how to run. They might say stuff like “I cant teach you Olympic level strategies yet because you are still unable to put one foot in front of the other”, but at the same time a good coach would be able to tell me how to put one foot in front of the other.

Not in the sense of full on evocation, but Im doing petitions and have had success with these.

Im sorry to say but I still think you dont understand what I am/was frustrated about.

They can make contact with you, Azazel was in contact with me before I knew who he was. They are beyond space and time. But they wait for you to make contact, you must act on your free will to contact them.

After some time you’ll probably realize they’ve been with you before you even knew about them like the case was with me an Azazel.

They are a lot more advanced than English. When I evoked Azazel he showed me visions and made me feel things that had more information than any words could. Then he spoke in plain English 'Good thing you went to church huh?!" Then I saw every moment that had led up to that point and how magick worked, why I had to make contact first and why I had to choose this life. But unlike you when I was a beginner I didn’t complain about how spirits worked, I just dedicated myself and eventually I was rewarded for my efforts with a spiritual experience.

Just shut the fuck up and do the work lmao I’m done trying to be nice lmao


Mode note: Looks like a great discussion with a lot of solid input that people feel strongly about, let’s keep it peaceful and respectful please. :+1:

Unnecessarily rude and off topic comments have been removed. This topic is on slow mode until tomorrow to give people a chance to have a good think before they post.

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Part of your post was actually quite nice and heartwarming and I wanted to respond with sharing a similar story. However your lack of tone is disheartening.
Dont think for a second that I was not frustrated with you not comprehending a thing I explained to you at least 3 times, boy I was.
You gave me lots of tips on a problem I didnt inquire about, so now have a tip from my side which you did not inquire about: think about if trying to come to an understanding of what is being talked about is a good idea before telling someone to shut the fuck up.

Just do the work

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It’s a bit like visiting a foreign country. When I visited Italy I had to learn to speak the Italian language. It’s much the same for demons. Hence why Enns are not in English.

Or to put it another way every profession in the world has language and words that excludes people not part of that profession. It’s arguably no different for magicians and demons.

When I was a beginner Enns and sigils were like the equivalent of a phone number. You need to dial the correct phone number to get the correct person

What also matters is intent. As people have said in this topic how do you know you haven’t summoned anything with your intent?


@Nightside when I read this post by @dakkel I wanted to respond immediately because you come across as rather pessimistic (understandably so I would say) and Ive been and am like that aswell. And I wanted to respond in order to share my perspective and experience in hope that it helps you in some way. I didnt respond immediately because I couldnt find the right words and I still feel like this is gonna be a mess so you´ll have to live with this half-assed attempt here :sweat_smile:
Anyway. As I said I still am and was incredibly pessimistic. I tried to not let it through much on the forums (no idea how much that did or did not work) because of a fear of stepping on peoples toes if Id be too openly critical of the whole thing.
If been interested in magick in at least 3 periods in my life. Right now is the 3rd period and I didnt stick with it the first 2 times and I only managed to stick to it now because I was in a seriously bad place where I was very, very close to suicide. However there was still this magick thing in the back of my mind which I felt I hadnt given a 100% try. So I figured I might continue living and try this thing. If its bullshit I could still end my life after that anyway.
So I did. And because of being in my drug abuse phase back then I was actually incredibly open instead of my usual pessimistic self. So I approached the experience with open arms aaaaand…
it didnt work.
So I became pessimistic again. And I did the things you should do and saw a few colors while meditating with closed eyes but meh. That was fine and all but not what I really wanted.
So the pessimistic approach didnt really work either.
The problem was that I was now too stable to commit suicide anymore. Bad luck on that one.
So I continued.
And I would love to explain the next part in more detail because I think its vital but I will give it the best try I can.
Basically over a very long period I oscillated between optimism and pessimism. Between “This might actually work and it´ll be amazing!” and “Fuck this shit, this isnt real, why was I so stupid and tried this bullshit?”.
A long time.
Anyway after posting this thread last week I reached a new personal peak. A balance between pessimism and optimism. Where I was able to accept these magickal things as a real possibility, but without going overboard into too fancy fairy tale land. A personal high.
All the frustration Im assuming you feel (and feel free to correct me if this is a wrong assumption, it just appears to me that way) Ive felt aswell. All the times you wanted to quit, Ive experienced it too and I dont think I will not experience it again.

This turned out far more motivational than I intended. But in essence my nugget of wisdom would be to open oneself up a little.
‘A little’ is important here because I think its easy to go too far and then be disappointed.
Heck I was even close to paying an online guru money at some point because I was so desperate.

Anyway, Ill end it on the online guru for now.
I hope this is of some worth to you.


I feel you. A reason why I meditated on Prince Orobas and King Bael (see my recent journal entries from today.

I feel you. Will come back to this after work and ponder it more - thank you, you did well :slight_smile:


Well, I don’t know what to say.
When a person utterly detests their existence because nothing, nothing moves when necessary, all it does is creates stress and frustration, over something that tis imaginary in the first place.
Then, aside form money, well, a whole lot destroyed.
I think a lot of me is simply outdated material in terms of humor and worldview, with my comedy from Benny Hill, George Carlin, Checy Chase, and Richard Pryor. Sarcasm was my humor growing up.
So, I guess there is always humor, distasteful or not.

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@Nightside checy chase? Anyhow keep telling yourself they don’t exist and you’ll convince yourself of it eventually. I suggest watching true crime shows and the news. That should be enough to convince anyone there’s no gods.(not joking. If there was a god how could he let that shit happen). :v:

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Dont you dare call George Carlin outdated :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Jokes aside. What came to mind when reading this is reframing. Maybe you know what this is already but if not its a psychological approach to turn bad situations around by creating a new perspective on a given situation.
So for example instead of saying “everything around me is shitty and destroyed, therefor I suck” (<- paraphrasing here and inserting what I would think in such a situation), you say “everything around me is shitty and destroyed and yet I still stand”.
Both of those sentences can be viewed as factually correct. And I think the goal should not be to sweet talk a situation or disregard problems or even devalue them.
But again both sentences are correct and so it is also true that despite all the shittyness you still come here and try and ask questions and all that.
And even if really none of that changes anything (I believe it does change things but slowly and over time) it still shows your innate strength, which maybe you havent found the correct channels for yet.
But my point is that this innate strength and determination cant be taken away from you, no matter their materialisation or lack thereof in tangible reality.


Because of a little thing called free will. That’s like saying someone have no parents just because they behave bad. That’s how I see it. I see it the way African derived traditions see it. The creator created and gave freedom of will to its creation. Letting them choose they way in life. If the creator controlled people and intervene every time we wanted then where will the freedom be? But that’s my view based on my experience. This is comming from someone who was abused, raped and neglected as a kid. I’m not trying to convince anyone though, I’m just giving my opinion respectfully. Our divine nature is our ability to override natural instinct and impulses for higher goals. Like when a person puts the well being of others before their own. It defies the instinct of self preservation yet is very human.

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Yeah, I avoid that type of thing as much as possible because it tends to encourage too much pessimism for me. I feel I don’t need to waste my time on it because not only do I not enjoy it, but I also realize it has no self-improvement value.


This is a wonderful thread. And @Chriss , you brought up surely a sensitive matter.
I absolutely understand when you say, if they or anybody has these much powers, why not use and talk in a place where i can understand.
I think I still had this Q in my mind for quite sometime.

But maybe I convinced myself on one of the 2 reasons below.
1- They maybe haviing powers but not willing to help me, and this is deliberate. Now what we call destiny is essentially the set of efforts and actions ,we take. All of us are at a place coz of some actions, decisions we made, probably karma manipulated us into taking those decisions, but we are entirely responsible.

2- The intensity at which we call and tell whatever to the entities. This greatly depends on individual will power, focus and determination.

So overall what people try to teach us to remain focussed and practise diligently. Whatever we do eith focus and discipline we get better at it, thats universal truth.
Further when these experts keep us to remain positive, again its coz we should not shy from our efforts and practice.

The sun shines, but only with focus, lenses, and right material it can actually create a fire.
Life is a journey, keep enjoying.


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The issue here is the assumption that the god cannot communicate with you and that somehow speaks of their capability, yet you fail to consider that in actuality it is you who cannot communicate with the God and that speaks of your capability not the entity. Whilst its true their level of power is at astonishing levels that is true in their realm, through the condensification of spirit upon the material physical plane, we end up limiting their power. Their limited to anthropomorphic form, their limited to the laws which govern this physical universe such as the laws of physics and not to mention have to work in conjuction with spiritual laws of casuality and cause and effect.

Once again this isn’t them being limited beings, this speaks of the limitations and boundaries of the individual and the realm which we call them into. Imagine using the metaphor

“Well if a gun is really powerful how come I have to learn how to use it first” Well because the gun isn’t going to shoot on its own, its only limited to who’s wielding it and their expertise so to speak. Another factor to remember is these beings don’t even have bodies nor do they speak in verbal words, so why do we see them in bodies and speaking our native language. That’s because our mind is so finite in terms of what we consider communication that our astral senses take the raw external impressions of the spirit and filter them through the labyrinths of our psyche and understanding, giving formless to the formless and translating the true language of the spirit which is vibrational frequency into words in our native language, sometimes our vocabulary too.

A piece of powerful and sophistication machinery in the hands of those who cannot use it is powerless and unimpressive however learn how to use it and watch how you can conquer the world.