Nope, never happened.
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I’ll have a look over the texts again, but I seem to remember his aspirations of surpassing god being discussed ( has been going on 18 years since I was taught about Christianity and the Jewish faith)
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Is it safe to say Satan is Satan’s real name?
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Yes, though it could also be used to refer to some aspects of lucifer
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@Biffa_Bacon Thank you so much really appreciate it.
The word “Ha-Satan” is in the Hebrew bible, but it’s not mentioned as God’s given name to the Devil or any specific being.
The word “Lucifer” is mentioned in Isaiah 14:12 to describe the king of Babylon, and in revelations - I think it’s 12-7 - to describe Jesus. In both cases the actual meaning, is planet Venus.
Those are the only places in the Bible - O.T and N.T - where the word “Lucifer” is mentioned.
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Could Devil be his name?
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I don’t think so. “Satan” in the bible, specifically the old testament, is not a name. It’s a job title.
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Rare gnosis, a mistery says that for the sephirot the name of the accuser is Satanas, but for the Qliphot the name of the accuser is Sanatas. So his true name is Sanatas
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@StewardofSophia
Had another look and the fall of Satan comes from a mix of metaphorical interpretation ( such as in Isaiah ) and there’s some more discussion of him being condemned for pride in Ezekiel
Here’s a decent website on it: The Story of Lucifer - How Did He Fall and Become Satan?
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I don’t think so. “Devil” and “Demon” not a name of a specific being.
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@Biffa_Bacon Thank you, I believe the text from Ezekiel talks about a human king.
As you can read in Ezekiel 28:2 “yet you are but a man, and no god,” The text itself says he’s talking about a man.
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It is talking about the king, yes, though the king is often conflated with lucifer. It’s still a topic of discussion as to whether the verses refer to the king, or lucifer who is acting through the king. Reading some of the arguments for either side atm and it’s certainly worth looking up. Interesting stuff
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Looking at it from a lhp perspective, Lucifer desires for humans to reach for godhood, so it’s not unreasonable to say that he may have once done the same.
He reaches for godhood and gets cast down, so aspires to lead humanity to do the same? Just speculation, but I’d say it’s logical and fits somewhat with the previously mentioned texts
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Right, except in Isaiah it’s directed at the King of Babylon, and in Ezekiel it’s directed at the King of Tyre. Both are human beings who aren’t the spiritual entity known as Satan.
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Getting to know Satan or Lucifer from the Bible or any scripture of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam, will yield little for the LHP. First, one would have to accept the validity if these texts. And then, if one does, why is one part of the LHP? They are only good for vigorous and entertaining discussions, like this. I have to say, it’s been a while since I’ve been so academically stimulated.
To get to the root of “who is Satan?” and “who is Lucifer?” actually is an extremely complicated issue, from what I have noticed on this forum. First, one has to establish if these are actual entities or symbolic entities. One has to establish whether they have independent existences or are manifestations of aspects of one’s self (or Self). One has to establish whether there is any difference among Satan, Lucifer, Baal, Beelzebub, Meloch, etc. Then there is the whole inter-religious perspective: how does Satan relate with ha-Satan in the Hebrew tradition, and how does ha-Satan relate with the sinilat entity in other ancient Near East traditions, and how does ha-Satan relate with ash-Shaytaan in Islam or whatever adversary the Nazarenes and later Pauline Christians bring up? I kid you not: if it hasn’t been done, some plucky religion student could get a PhD just writing a dissertation on this!
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Where to learn about Jesus… if not from the bible?! The same with any other character mentioned in any other religious or spiritual text. To say that we can simply ignore the Quran and evoke Allah and learn his story directly from him… well, how do you know if it’s “him”? If Allah told you he’s a trinity, father - son and holy spirit, or that he’s actually the father of the Hindu gods and goddesses, you would instantly know your mind is playing with you or you’re dealing with a trickster spirit. That’s why those sources are important.
I agree that it’s a complected subject. That’s why in my original post I said … “it depends on which book you’re reading”. And left it at that. Because we’re reading stories in books. That we can all agree with. One character in one book may exist in another book completely differently. So which one manifests to me in evocations !!! It really depends on which source or book you believe in at that time! If you have no specific belief or your belief is weak, then it could be any of them.
Without the bible Satan wouldn’t exist today. Jesus wouldn’t exist as well. Those are truly and simply characters in a book. Magicians evoke Marvel superheros in rituals so no need to take it lightly. “Just characters in a book” is as serious and as real as it gets. Not suggesting they’re all thought forms. Believe what you wish.
When we’re dealing with those spirits individually we’re free with them and they are free with us, they can take any form, give us all wonderful details we never knew about them and not mentioned anywhere. But still without ignoring their origins, their cultures, religions, scriptures etc or we will turn the whole thing into utter madness.
Some reality check won’t hurt. Just to make sure we’re not losing it.
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Made this point a little later in the thread. From what I’ve read, the main point people use to argue that Satan is being addressed is the language. The phrasing and way the verses talk about perfection and being cast down makes more sense when applied to Satan than any human.
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I disagree, in both instances it’s a poetic description of a king. It’s not meant to be taken literally, it’s supposed to be interpreted. Read the entire chapters of Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 and you’ll see the context and understand the metaphors. (Unless you lack the capacity to comprehend poetic allusions, then it could prove more difficult than that.)
But when the Jews read these chapters in the Prophets, they don’t teach that it has anything to do with the satan (who is still in heaven in Judaism), they correctly interpret them to be poetic allusions to human men.
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This Thread is actually impressive, all of you are playing to the nature of his game, kinda interesting tbh. Nothing wrong with it, I kinda find it interesting.
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