What is the difference between real spirits, mental disorders, tulpas, and servitors?

Spirits, Evocation & Possession
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From what I’ve read on the forum, I’ve formed the impression that developing astral senses, creating a tulpa or servitor, and establishing a relationship and contact with spirits are all the same process. :thinking:

In each of these processes, we harbor certain expectations and seek sensations that align with them; consequently, a vast portion of our experience may simply be a matter of autosuggestion and self-deception.

Reading guides and the experiences of people on the forum, it seems to me that sometimes we simply convince ourselves that we’ve made contact or are experiencing a certain sensation. In the process of such autosuggestions, we can create thoughtforms, tulpas, and servitors.

So… the main question is how to distinguish whether the spirit we are working with is real, or simply an entity created by our own autosuggestion—while we believe it to be an independent spirit or a deity?

P.S. This post is not AI-generated; please do not delete it. :sob::sob::sob:

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Ye, it appears to be human-written, thank for you that! For what it’s worth, we don’t allow people write as channeled entities either - it’s a humans-only forum. :smiley:

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UPG is UPG until it’s verified.

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Mental disorders are easy, they’re generally incoherent, incapable of enacting real change, impossible to cross-verify with other similar information, and will not affect your surrounding environment.

As much as the practice of magic can make the sanest person go off-the-rail without preparation and grounding, there is a difference between mental disorders and actual evocation for example; as much as everyone in the normiesphere will like to pretend this is just schizophrenia and else.

I can’t speak in the name of all practitioners nor all spirit experiences, but indicators that proved me that this isn’t self-deception are these:

1. Verifiable, real information about other people or things I did not know of beforehand, either consciously or unconsciously:

I did the test with a real-life person, and got everything, favorite color, favorite food, specific fear, likes, perception of me, favorite music type. Without exception, she confirmed everything about that, she was kind of unsettled by it in fact. Though there were a few of the informations which she didn’t remember so couldn’t confirm or deny, and another where I simply didn’t ask for it was too personal.

This was automatic writing and not so much evocation I did to gain the above, but it is still spirit communication for I could not have known any of those informations myself, I barely knew the person. I did the automatic writing with the intent to communicate with a specific spirit.

2. Environment change:
My dogs have gotten much more active during a period where I started to do evocation, they weren’t even in heat, but they were restless, running around and digging at the floor (stress-relief behavior), not sleeping much at night, and ultra attracted to me where it was less that before. All of that ended after I did some banishing, and/or because they got used to the energy.

Another change is, for some, room temperature, in my case at least it is. The room I use to evoke is much hotter than any other at home, and as such easy to sweat, a physical proof then the temperature did shift. It might also be because of the daily energy work I do there.

Neither I nor my family have any medical history of mental illness associated with hallucinations whatsoever, and i’m the only practicioner I know of (well technically two others ‘dabble’ and are just armchair and what I call practicioners of false-occultism, i.e New Age, profane magic stuff). I was a believer in scientism myself and came with an empirical approach as well so I don’t buy in the self-delusion either.

You could also check the hundreds if not housands of other testimonies on BALG, or real-life scientifical studies of created from scratch, group belief of an entity after its conceptualization/creation, with poltergeist activity resulting from it. Better yet, try it it yourself and you’ll get the answers you want. That’s what I did since I never believe nor disbelieve anything until I tried it out myself.

Astral senses are linked to spirit communication but are not necessarily required to be activated.

My first evocation, Hecate, created a flame spark (three times, forgot to mention) on the candle where usually there were none, as well as a red light emitted for a milisecond from the corner of my eyes, which by the way could not have been something of the environment since in the corner of our eyes we cannot discern colors (try the experiment, take something colorful, look aside along a few other colored stuff, and try without remembering what are the colors, you won’t be able to). And at the end of it, a big but relaxing pressure inside my head after it was done. I never evoked before and mostly was there monologuing and apologizing for inexperience.

That may be possible. I sought truth and knowledge for a decade and for some reason I always manage to spot what is true from what is not, sidestep completely disinformation and be led into specific rabbit holes unprompted that give me answers to what I seek for some reason, sometimes even while reading or doing something entirely unrelated. I suspect a thoughtform feeding on the mental or emotional state/energy of chasing that kind of knowledge obsessively. But that’s UPG here.

Overall, a coincidence occurring once is a coincidence, twice is a rarity, thrice is an anomaly, and fourth it’s not a coincidence.

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This probably depends on your personal beliefs about how magic works, because there are apparently many schools. There’s one that postulates that everything is in your mind, and when you ask a spirit for money, you’re merely reprogramming your mind to become the person who sees opportunities to get money. If this is your view, then there’s not that much difference between a spirit and a thoughtform.

The opposite view is, of course, that spirits very much exist in the non-material world. There are a lot of views in between, from them being archetypes in the collective unconscious you can access, to the chaos magick view that could be simplified as “they exist because people believe in them”. It’s not really feasible to verify in any way, so you’d have to decide for yourself and figure out the approach that works for you.

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I would say this is already a pattern :slight_smile:

Have you ever tried, for example, asking a spirit what card you’re holding without knowing the answer, or something similar? I’ve read that those who work with tulpas don’t get the right answers because a tulpa is a thought form and doesn’t know anything the host doesn’t know.

Or I remember some people on the forum saying that during astral travels they read some information in the next room, and then it was confirmed in reality, but I’m not sure that this can be trusted, since other people say that the world in astral projection differs from the real one… I myself have not yet been able to experience astral projection, but I have not tried to purposefully and for a long time to learn it.

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So this is where you’ll find the terms UPG, SPG and VPG.

UPG is an unverified personal gnosis, SPG is a shared personal gnosis and a VPG is a Verified Personal Gnosis.

For VPGs/SPGs check around the forum and see if your experience with an entity, deity, spirit etc is similar to someone else’s.

Personally, I believe everything is psychosomatic. We think something exists, and thus it becomes real in our mind.

We call something a chair and thus it is a chair. We call a tree a tree and thus its a tree. We call the unexplained a spirit and thus its a spirit.

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I did not, but I think it is possible to know the content of it even without asking a spirit, it’s a method used in remote viewing and remote viewers practice using that, content inside sealed envelopes, or inside boxes unaware of what is inside of them. My guess is that it would be possible to ask a spirit of what is inside of it, provided the spirit is communicated with using a method that works and in the right state of mind. One day i’ll have to try to do so once i’m done with astral projection.

That is possible, though there may also be difference called “reality shifts” based on the astral projection book i’m reading right now and practicing, called Master astral projection in 90 days from Robert Bruce, i’m at half of it, but in the book he says that there may be displaced objects, or missing objects, or sometimes objects that are present but were originally planned to be there in the future. I do know that astral projection can be a method to retrieve information, and this, just like remote viewing, was studied by alphabet agencies.

I’ll be able to tell you in the future more about that, if I manage to exit, hopefully.

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But there must be something we call truth. Some patterns and events that are confirmed under the same conditions in different people, or that can be somehow verified… Otherwise, we can accept any thought as a directive from above, so to speak.

I had one experience during my first invocation of Naamah, which, months and years later, I can’t explain in any way other than spirit activity, but many subsequent attempts, rituals, and so on, raise doubts.

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I think so too! But if the knowledge gained from such experiences has no external basis, then it can’t be trusted. It’s easier to see a therapist than to work with an imaginary being that relies solely on our own experience.

Honestly, I’ve never heard such terms in English before, so this can be considered useful information. Thank you.

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It’s already a big assumption that a verifiable truth exists. For example, one curious physics preprint I’ve read recently postulated that the universe is being created in real time by multiple observers who, by observing the same patch of reality, set up a deterministic version. If that were the case, plenty of areas could have no truth at all, because no one has checked them yet.

But yeah, recent events made me wonder how I was supposed to recognize an authentic message from my mind, which seeks predefined patterns. At this point, I’m not sure if this is even possible, so I decided to go with a “whatever works” attitude.

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Well this is where Jungian psychology comes into play with the idea of shadow-work. This in my experience is what modern day demonology involves, the 72 demons of Solomon for instance are but aspects of the mind and the self and through binding and speaking with them you learn self-acceptance and self-realisation/actualisation by doing the rituals. Links back into the age old adage, “know thyself and then do what thou wilt”

And likewise, when you give into the shadowself and don’t accept it, you become “possessed” but not in the Hollywood sense. Possession is more like giving into greed and hurting people to climb a corporate ladder

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Personal experience like this is always gold!)

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So, what was it, if it’s something you can and want to disclose? Figuring out what constitutes an undoubtable spirit activity would do wonders for me currently.

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I didn’t really believe in spirits and magic back then, so I decided to try summoning her (Naama). Why her? I was just horny. I tried it first, “summoning” her for about half an hour, but nothing happened. I was about to give up, but a few hours later I tried again. Coincidentally, that night was a full moon, so maybe that had an effect.

Anyway, I decided to call her again and asked her to “show me love.” After a few minutes, I began to feel a sensation rising up my legs, toward my pelvis and perineum, and then I began experiencing explosions and waves of uncontrollable orgasms that lasted for about an hour, and then periodically throughout the rest of the night.

My body arched, and the orgasm felt different from usual, spreading throughout my entire body, with varying intensity. It was somewhat similar to the kundalini experience described, but more sexual.

Could I have imagined it? It’s hard to say. Firstly, I didn’t really believe anything would come of it and what I was expecting. I thought I’d just have some interesting dream. Secondly, I didn’t even know such sensations existed and had never experienced anything like them. And I haven’t experienced anything like them since. This was my first attempt at “summoning a demon,” so to speak.

The truth is, I felt really bad for a few days after that. I couldn’t eat and had trouble sleeping. It was probably just a severe shock, or something was wrong with my energy, or something similar.

Since then, no matter how much I tried all sorts of kundalini yoga techniques, energy work, and other spirit invocations, there was nothing even close to this. But before I invoked Naama, I knew nothing about kundalini, hadn’t done yoga, hadn’t tried to achieve such states and sensations, and didn’t even know about them. I had no knowledge of this existence, no previous experience working with spirits, and no expectations. No matter how hard I tried to repeat something similar or explain it, I couldn’t. But here I received it all without any effort or intention, simply by asking.

Edit. @Caessium I didn’t understand whether I answered you or just threw in a post, so I decided to tag you.

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Theoretically, spontaneous orgasms can happen in some people, but it’s extremely unlikely for this to just start happening straight after calling a spirit without a spirit being involved.

I’m in the middle of a long-term experiment with a petition. I should have a result written up around 9/22 (because that is when the petition period ends). It might help with your question, because one of my main problems is figuring out what happened because of the petition versus just my tendency to obsess over stuff I research and my ability to work myself up.

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Unfortunately, my petitions either went unanswered, I didn’t notice it, or I didn’t try to believe it and verify it, and therefore found no confirmation. The problem is that if we can invent and self-delude one “magical” experience, then others could also be pure imagination.

So far, I’ve only had one such experience, which I haven’t been able to explain as anything other than spiritual activity. There were others, of course, but they weren’t as obvious or powerful, and they’re easily questioned. So any personal experience of other people and amateur experiments can be useful on the path to the truth)

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In my case, the petition feels answered. I noticed multiple synchronicities, sometimes involving other people; two dreams that felt targeted; and the closest thing to a signature in my dream journal that I remember writing, but I don’t remember why. I don’t have definite proof that would convince a skeptic, but I’m convinced now.

I modified the petition method from the tutorial by involving a sigil: I drew it before writing a petition, gazed at it for 4 minutes using fourfold breath, and only then read the letter 4 times. I had no idea whether the number 4 helped, but it felt intuitive after using fourfold breath. Also, I did LBRP and Middle Pillar beforehand. This might have helped.

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Tends to happen to guys while sleeping. Known as nocturnal emissions unless ive misunderstood

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Yeah, but I actually forgot about those. There’s a medical condition that can cause them during the day, in a large amount, and often inopportune moment.

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