There are thousands of people i see on youtube becoming millionaires etc by using LOA methods
so my question is what advantage working with angels and demons have when people just use law of attraction methods to do the same
Angels and demons are way more powerful than subconscious mind right?
Or their is some other thing
Sorry if i am asking dumb questions
No not at all. Some of them, and depending on your worldview, are nothing more than personifications of your own subconscious in your imagination. Others view then as separate beings but they still need your energetic belief and permission to work.
Itās the same thing in the end, either way you are doing what it takes to change the energy in the world, and whatever method you pick has to work within your beliefs and mindset. Some people donāt believe they can personally do magick and rely on externalization or external beings, others do the opposite.
This is why magick is so personal, and techniques that work for some do not work for others. The actual work and magick comes from you and you giving permission for it to change, making a path for manifestation and all that good stuff.
Yeah thereās going to be as many answers as there are mages. This is where you have to take everything other people do as āinteresting ideasā - but then try things out and develop your own way for yourself. Itās part of your own self discovery and knowing yourself as a mage to get familiar with what techniques work best for you in practice, then keep practicing those and they get better.
Just be careful about what you see on Youtube 
You donāt know anything about what those people already have.
I remember Jennifer Aniston saying she practices the law of attraction to get her jobsā¦ Just like she already stuggles to get them 
No matter whether you work the LOA or Ceremonial Magick, both influence your surronding.
Some people have a natural field/personnality/goal that can be influenced to make them richer/more influancialā¦ That what they already have.
When you work wealth magick as a businessman/trader itās way easier if you are broke and donāt go out.
There are TONS of people who have success in magick and never experience crazy wealth.
If your magickal work aligns with your goal/lifestyle, ofc you will have results.
Are ascended beings objective or subjective of mind?
As I just said, itās up to you to decide what you believe.
I can share MY personal worldview, which is not of the school of thought that Iām the only being and everything is a manifestation of my mindā¦ but I have to caveat, my views are not fixed āTruthā¢ā and are more like a āworking theoryā. So even if I was to try to tell people what to think thereās no guarantee Iād say the same thing next week anyway.
Donāt listen to meā¦ Iām just a student too so what the fuck do I know? ā¦ think about it, listen to everybody, survey the ālandscapeā of data, and then make your own mind up for what makes sense and works for you. Thatās what I try to do. Itās more work, yes, but itās the only sane and not dogmatic way imo, and part of finding out who you are in terms of values along the way.
In my personal opinion, it really depends on the individual, what they are looking to achieve and their overall experience with magik. The Loas are really powerful. I have had the privilege to have witnessed some of the works of a few of these entities and itās mind blowing
Keep in mind tho, the Loas, who are all African entities, all fall under a Demon. (Based on information found in the ars of Goetia) Although, not all demons are created equal in terms of authority granted upon them, I do think however some demons are far more powerful, in turn more beneficial to work with than the Loas - This of course is my personal opinion and totally based on my limited understanding of existence, so donāt take it as gospel
I would say the Loas, although were held as gods in some ancient civilizations as somewhat foot soldiers for their superior which is Cimeries (according to the ars of the Goetia.) Since they are within his legions. Yet again, when you look a little closer within Voodoo, the Loas genealogy seems to be a bit more complicated and intertwined than that, suggesting some Loas have influence from other entities outside of Cimeries
ā¦Thatās according to my opinion and somewhat a bit biased view, most of what I put there could be dead wrong
(At the moment, my knowledge is a bit limited to even have an understanding what this all means)
Far as angels, I canāt really speak much on them. I started magik within the Goetia and am just starting learning about angels and how to work with them
To find out for sure, Iād suggest you start a pathworking with them and in time, based on whatās revealed to you, youād know for certain the benefits that come working with each type of these entities
I wish I had a more direct answer, for I too have been curious and pondering about this exact question
I am talking about law of attraction not loa entities
So basically our subconscious mind and spirits
Who are more powerful
Have you seen their bank account or earnings statements? What makes you believe those people are rich or doing well besides selling their courses and materials? It is not the same as the moderator suggested. Where is proof of those people actually earning what they say they are?
Donāt believe photos of their home, cars, etc as that can be faked. They should show something concrete.
Law of attraction messaging is popular because it sells & says believe and try a little then Everything will happen according to your will, but must be driven by an active force.
Fancy words draw followers who pay. They need people to believe to eventually pay for their services. Mind over matter means mind and actions to transverse matter. We hardly ever get something without action. Otherwise we could all sit on our bed asking for money.
Check out the money forum area here. Try some money spells, but understand life doesnāt always or often give you things with nothing done on your part. That is a fantasy. Geez
For me the law of attraction and law of assumption stuff never worked. However; Iāve used sigil magick with great success and that doesnāt involve any spirits. Iāve also used various spirit magick and have gotten great results.
I donāt think spirits are required for magick but it is definitely nice to have an intelligence guiding your magick. They can give extra power to a working but it is still pretty dependent on your ability as youāre the one drawing their presence into the physical world.
From everything Iāve read (so not from personal experience) I donāt think there is a true divide between spirit magick and non-spirit magick. People who connect with a spirit on a profound level tend to find a wellspring of power they didnāt think was possible, getting results beyond their imagination. Then the spirit usually teaches the practitioner how to access the power themselves. So it starts with spirit magick and then becomes spiritless magick.
Now if I can add a kind of shower thought about LOA. In ritual books there is sometimes a chapter or small section on what to do while waiting for results (the section that usually talks about lust for results). When I read LOA books I notice that they are very similar to those sections, just expanded upon more. So my hypothesis is that loa works for people who are either really close to their result anyway or they are naturally powerful, and the only thing stopping them is their state of mind.
Sigils are the goat in loa right?
Its all based on subconscious mind so sigils are the direct door
Also how does curses work then?
Everyoneās subconscious is on their side in this case
So how does curses work at the first point
I donāt know if Iāve read anything by loa authors that mention sigils. Although Iāve seen chaos magicians say that sigils work better than something like visualization.
And thatās the explanation as to why that the chaos magicians think sigils are better. Although Iāve personally moved away from the subconscious model of magick, but thatās not too relevant here.
Iām not sure if youāre directing that question at me but Iāll try to answer. So unfortunately Iāve havenāt cursed anyone yet so this is another thing Iāll just have to answer from things Iāve read. Many loa people would say that curses do not work, they only have power if you give them power. So if you someone curses you and you simply didnāt believe in the curse, it wouldnāt work. If you did believe in the curse then it would affect you. However; in Baneful Magick by E.A. keoting he says that it doesnāt matter if the target believes in the curse or not. In fact if the target doesnāt believe, they wonāt face the darkness coming at them and thus the curse can work without hindrance. In this view loa people are even more vulnerable to curses.
I personally think people can overpower each other with magick depending on power and persistence. If I ever curse someone Iāll share what I learn.
So spirits > subconscious?
Well since I donāt subscribe to the subconscious model spirits kind of win by default. If you mean spirits > loa, then in my experience it is an absolute yes. If you mean spirits > spiritless magick then Iād give the lawyer answer of it depends.
I personally use servitor magick a lot and I donāt if that counts as spirit magick or not. I think it is invaluable to have some sort of intelligence guiding your magick. I recommend finding what works for you, if it involves spirits great, if not still great. Or you can pick a form of magick from both categories.
You canāt separate them, as you are communicating via your subconscious and a lot of what you get IS your subconscious telling you what it knows as well as what itās getting off a spirit. No subconscious no spirit communication no ask and you shall receive on any level. Can a spirit account for energies you canāt though - yes. You work together.
So no, itās not a matter of ābetterā or āstrongerā, itās what you can get to work for the result, which is different for different people.
Imagine if you changed the question to āshould I work by myself, or work in a team?ā Thereās advantages and disadvantages to both. Depends what you want to do, but a wider team bring more manpower and skills than you have alone, but also brings management issues. Itās not better itās different
Try it both ways and see what you like, thatās the best you can do. Whatever anyone else says it what worked for THEM, not you.
Personally, I believe itās ideal to choose the right tools and the right people for the right job. If itās something I can manage on my own I will for the simplicity, like, a binding, or a basic curse. But a bigger job, or one that needs more consistent input over time, or the knowledge of others, I will call entities, sometimes many at once, and ask them for their expertise in advice and action.
Soā¦ for example look at the difference in these two:
I agree and I do see this point of view, but my take is a little different, I do agree however manifestation also requires work their are some manifestation coaches who preach about meeting the āuniverseā half way so yes itās the power of the mind but it is also your actions.
Some people truly believe you can sit on your ass and pray and itāll come. But from friends and people I know they manifest but they Still do the hardwork of taking actions or making connections or whatever it may be that helps them get closer to their goal.
Thereās some people that I know who do mainly rely on manifestation but they still do tarot or spells specifically she (my friend) sees it as a ENERGY that can be shifted.
But thereās a variety of archetypes you could say in the manifestation world, some believe that you can sit on your ass and manifest, some believe you have to meet the universe half way, some donāt care and just do what works for them.
Some involve rituals and spells, so tarot.
Itās vast!
Great question. I ask myself this.
The Law of Attraction is useless if you ignore the other related Laws of manifestation but the Law of Attraction peddlers donāt want you to know that. The Law of Attraction is basically a con. The blind leading the blind.
There are āhigh rankingā Crowleyan magicians who cite Deepak Chopraās (7 simple Spiritual Laws of Success) philosophy as containing everything you need to know about magick.
With that said, Deepak does invoke Pagan Gods for help and he has said so publicly. In fact , if Iām not mistaken he says that the aim of existence is to become the living God that you already are!. Ha!
People get into the āLaw of Attractionā because they presently feel small and insignificant but they are itching to fulfill their fantasies of being big shots of some sort. They are full of doubt. Easy prey for Law of Attraction hawks.
The only way to āmanifest somethingā, that you doubt will manifest, is not to be arsed about it manifesting. Then, when your doubt has faded, it wonāt matter to you when it manifests either way. That means you have to trick your dumb human mind. Us humans are idiots basically. <Hereās my answer to your OP> The best way and centuries -old tried and tested way to trick your mind , imo, is to learn to work with Angels and Demons and Gods which sort of puts the dumb human mind in itās rightful place. That takes yogic discipline and some sort of mastery of the techniques of ceremonial magick discussed all over this forum.
You got something here.
I was wondering how so many traditions (Hermetics, Kabbalah, Golden Down, Bardonian Magickā¦) developped through time promessing people to āāāāāmanifestāāāāā changes in their life after so many mind workā¦
The Law of Attraction is like erasing every preliminary work, spiritual developpement etc to push people to get the āgnosisā state while none of them actually learn to reach it.
Could you give a/some books where I can find more information on the Subject of LOAS being under the rule of Cimeries ?
I donāt know of any books that lay out the exact genealogy of the Loas, however, as stated in the ars of the Goetia, Cimeries is listed as the ruler of all the spirits in Africa and the Loas are part of an African religion and Magik system (Voodoo/Voudon)
The Goetia does make no mention of the Loas in particular, however, based off the modern knowledge and belief of their origin, they are placed and originated from Africa which on that basis, they are part of Cimeriesā Legion - of course that is with the assumption the modern belief of the origins of the Loas is accurate -
These are my personal analysis
For a book about Voodoo, E.A published a book āThe spider and the green butterflyā specifically about Voodoo. I havenāt gone through the entire book myself, but I donāt think it provides an exact genealogy of the Loas (I could be wrong, Iāll know for sure once gone through the book in its entirety)
For such information, if you want to be absolutely certain, you might have to ask the Loas themselves, mainly Papa Legba (the initiator of Voodoo) or some other entities who possesses such knowledge