- is Lucifer a real being or He is just a archetype/mental construction?
- can I consider Lucifer as a Satan version 2.0?
Thanks!
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- he’s real.
- no.
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There are MANY opinions about this, my general advice to avoid pissing off spirits is to treat them all as distinct personages until told otherwise, and also, treat them as seperate unless they say not to, I say this because it’s what I do and it works, and it seems to me presumptuous to start linking spirits up without their permission into one archetype. But YMMV etc.
That said, in my opinion the answer to your questions is both yes AND no, I posted my experiences to date so far here:
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1.) Lucifer is very real
2.) In my opinion Lucifer isn’t an upgraded version of Satan, but a leader of the Satanic archetype. He leads others to enlightenment. In my experience Satan is both a spiritual entity and an archetype of many gods, Lucifer being the enlightener, the light within the darkness. However Lucifer is not entirely Satan, as both started as different concepts entirely. They only became nearly synonymous after the Christians started condemning Pagan gods as Satan and demons. I would treat Lucifer as his own power, because he can and does exist separately from Satan.
As Lady Eva said, there are many opinions… Some advice; when working with spirits it is best to not assume anything before you worked with them. You can certainly know what others say, but your experience of Lucifer will be different from mine and any other person. You can experience best by not knowing what will happen… the results can be surprising.
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Lucifer is not a Roman god of light. The main god of light is Apollo in Greek mythology. Lucifer is a mistranslation of the Latin translation of the Hebrew document. I go into this at length on one of my first posts here: Are some spirits thoughtforms? Does it matter?
And Satan was not originally an idea of evil. Originally Satan was an angel employed by God and under his control. If God is the judge, Satan is the court assigned opposition. That’s his job, to accuse. It isn’t until Judaism mixes with Zoroastrianism after the Babylonian exile that Satan is actually a force that opposed God. I go into this at length in one of my other posts: Babylonian and Persian influence on Ancient Judaism
Sorry, I’m a historian and I love the pursuit of knowledge. And when I see people spreading mistruths and misinformation (often not their fault either) I feel the need to correct that false understanding of history.
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Actually I much appreciate it. It sounds a bit crazy but I love being corrected. “Best way to learn is to make mistakes”. I honestly don’t remember where I first heard that saying. I’ll remember those details for next time.
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Better to call up Lucifer and ask him these questions yourself no?
Until you actually start to have conversations with him, everything you get from other people is really ever only going to be their opinion.
Mine is, we’re all still working on the proper definition of “Real” so i’ll get back to you once that’s done, but you can solve a big part of that quite quickly by summoning him up and try to order him around, see how far that gets you.
You can definitely do that if you really want to, Lucifer shines his light on whatever path you ask to walk, if that happens to lead you to a very dark and painful place, well that’s what you asked for.
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I guess I should actually answer your questions.
- It’s my belief that every entity is a mental construction. Everyone encounters spirits in their own way. The same spirits will tell two different people completely contradictory information. It’s my belief that they represent an aspect of you which is manifesting the results of the ritual.
- No, or at least, I don’t. Historically Lucifer is a mistranslation that was a poetic nickname for the King of Babylon and was erroneously applied to Satan, this oppositional figure, in the sixth century.
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You do realize that a lot of that history was made up to create doctrine to control people right? (Source: Raphael told me, among many others.)
If you have questions about Lucifer, perhaps it would be easier to ask him yourself? His name means bearer of light. He denies any connection with Satan or any horned entity.
Fallen Angels and demons are for the most part, not the same types of spirits. They are in many to most cases completely different. Saying that they are the same and lumping them together is completely wrong.
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And as far as being evil, Lucifer is a very neutral being. He doesn’t condone self destruction, but other than that yea.
he was a Roman god, not considered the absolute bringer of light, but rather a star god, which is also accurate.
Entities are not mental constructs. They were created like me and you were, some, in this universe, being close to a billion years old. They should be treated like you would treat a person and part of that is not judging people based on silly rumors without meeting them first.
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- totaly real
- why not?
ever deepening gnosis brings about paradoxical permutations of terms such
Lucifer/Satan
if you consider Satan as Our Absolute and Eternal Mother/Father, The Living Void
then yes, Lucifer (not as some god, by the PRIME PHENOMENON of Existance) emerges as Satan 2.0
for more information, soul travel to the “big bang” occurance and see for yourself
I would say that I agree with @Lady_Eva on this.
1.) Yes and no, it depends on the way you perceive it. Depending on your personal reality and beliefs. Those that say that he is real or he is not real, will firstly need to understand what is reality in general and that there is personal and “global” reality.
I, myself, at first believed that Satan and Lucifer are 2 different entities but from time to time… more I become familiar with Lucifer, he explained me some things about this.
2.) In my experience. I would say that Lucifer and Satan are same entities at some point. And I will tell you how he explained these things to me so it is up to you to believe in it or simply disagree, which is okay for me. He told me that entity that we call Satan isn’t that “real” but belief from people (be it from religions or whatever is it) made it very real. So let’s say that half of being called Satan is egregore and half of it is Lucifer. The way Lucifer explained this to me is that he “took” that form and accepted it because it will provide him additional power. Now, is Satan real (origina) or not real version of Lucifer would depend… it was not but since it is “now” part of him… it is… keep in mind that time does not apply to eternity and astral world.
Here is little “proof” that I realized myself about Lucifer and how is he actually related to Satan. Some people see Lucifer as a demonic entity, some as angelic entity… so ask yourself a question… why is it actually like that?
What he told me about this when I asked him is that he is neither “just” demonic nor angelic but both at the same time. He would be something called “Demonic Angel”. Being that achieved a balance between light and dark energy. This explains why people get confused about him as an entity and his energy (some feel it very dark… some very light).
Satan would be one of his dark aspects and Lucifer would be a “result” of all his aspects in one. When merged together he is what he really is… so if you believe that he is a demon, it is okay… if you believe that he is an angel… it is okay because both are true.
Now, why he usually don’t want to explain this to everyone is because most people see Satan as christian devil. (I dont really need to start about this …) … so I would say that he is really tired of explaining some questions over and over again but he will let you know what he is once you are done with de-programing.
But also I would agree with @ashtkerr at some point. I don’t believe that his “original” name is 100% legit but Lucifer himself told me that it does not matter as long as you believe in it. Whatever his name is it… even if you just focus on his energy (without using a name) you can contact him.
- Flame
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You do realize that a lot of that history was made up to create doctrine to control people right? (Source: Raphael told me, among many others.)
Yes, that’s generally how religion works. I’m not claiming that the history of the Bible is 100% reliable and inerrant, I’m simply claiming that there is no entity named Lucifer found within it.
If you have questions about Lucifer, perhaps it would be easier to ask him yourself? His name means bearer of light. He denies any connection with Satan or any horned entity.
As a rule, I don’t argue about personal opinions and gnosis. But, I did know the translation of the noun lucifer.
Fallen Angels and demons are for the most part, not the same types of spirits. They are in many to most cases completely different. Saying that they are the same and lumping them together is completely wrong.
As a rule, I don’t argue about personal opinions and gnosis.
And as far as being evil, Lucifer is a very neutral being. He doesn’t condone self destruction, but other than that yea.
I never claimed he was evil, but again, as a rule, I don’t argue about personal opinions and gnosis.
he was a Roman god, not considered the absolute bringer of light, but rather a star god, which is also accurate.
So, you were pretty insistent on this and I looked it up and it took some digging, but I found that you were right, and I was wrong. So, I stand corrected. Lucifer is the Roman god of the morning star (which is Venus) and his Greek counterpart is Phosphorus.
This still, however, doesn’t change the fact that there’s no Lucifer in the Bible. The single reference to Lucifer is a mistranslated poetic nickname for the King of Babylon.
Entities are not mental constructs. They were created like me and you were, some, in this universe, being close to a billion years old. They should be treated like you would treat a person and part of that is not judging people based on silly rumors without meeting them first.
Again, as a rule, I don’t argue about personal opinions and gnosis. When I read about multiple different individuals speaking to the same entity and getting the same answers for once, then I will believe that they are individual consciousnesses. Until then, my opinion is set.
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Good rule.
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@Yerkes . What Nagathex said. Also, I would point out, that sometimes very old spirits sometimes wear masks of archetype construction so even IF that is the case, it would not diminish his efficacy.
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I agree.
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