I’m specifically interested in working with demons that can change parts of a person’s identity against their will, especially with respect to gender and sexual orientation.
For example, it’s sometimes said here that Belial can change a person’s sexual orientation. Is that true of gender identity too? Does it require the consent of the person being changed?
To say it another way, are there spirits who can make someone else believe they are trans, against their usual will, at the behest of the magician?
I don’t think anyone has truly been successful with that. At least not in any permanent way. It would be much easier to influence someone to be willing to “experiment” with the same gender than completely change an intrinsic part of themselves. Forceful conversion never works and the true self always reasserts itself.
Possibly. It would essentially be creating a type of mental disorder in the target.
No. Curses are the magical equivalent of physical assault. Consent is not required. You are literally forcing your desires upon another sovereign being.
What you’re asking for, essentially, is a demon to curse someone with the condition of body dysmorphia and the answer is yes, there are spirits that could do that. However, like any forced mental disruption, it would likely only be a temporary change. The success and duration of it would depend largely on the target’s own force of will and confidence of self. In my opinion, someone secure in who they are would unlikely be much affected.
I still can’t determine the full intention of ms. kindafem95 out of this post, but:
And I think it works the same for gender identity. You can’t permanently force someone to become trans, just like you can’t (permanently) “pray the gay away”.
Moderator note: Please remember that discussion of identity politics is prohibited on this forum. Please keep this thread on topic. Any posts regarding the OP’s sexual identity will be removed.
Oooh by all means, criticize away.
I know I do. It’s one of my favorite things to do on here. ^^ You don’t necessarily need to respond when criticizing, though.
I do agree with the mods and other rule makers here that apart from just silently criticizing people, posting judgey comments on people why they are wrong for wanting to do something metaphysical that seems amoral would probably change this place into something that it wasn’t intended to be.
Personally I respect the hell out of this place for keeping it this way even after the whole drama with that weird British dude a few years back.
It’s all about freedom of choice and taking responsibility for your own actions.
Animal sacrifice, for instance, really triggers me personally. Especially by people who hardly have any idea what they’re doing. However, I think it’s more constructive to educate people (and myself in the proces sometimes) on certain topics, than to judge the hell out of 'm without knowing the whole situation a person is in.
As for this specific thread. I assume, after the replies given, the OP knows (sorry for “speaking” as if you’re not here @kindafem95 )that any baneful spell goes against a persons sovereignty. That this kind of spell might cause some sort of
mental problem etc.
On the other hand it might give someone who’s way too set in their ways and too black and white in their views, perhaps even pesters the OP about it a chance to be confronted by this.
In this fictional scenario, the operator gets to have their revenge by making their target suffer and maybe gain some relief or even freedom because of it. The target gets a chance to experience, learn and evolve.
So yeah, who am I in this scenario to judge the situation or the potential operator?
Temporary effects are fine; it just needs to last long enough for them to have trans surgeries that can’t be undone easily. If they realize afterwards that they made a mistake, that’s totally fine and doesn’t matter for my purposes.
Yes, this is pretty close to what I’m trying to do. I’m targeting someone I know who dislikes trans people. I want them to feel what it’s like to be in a body that doesn’t belong to them.
Such a spell is unlikely to last that long. You’ll be fighting against their will and innate sense of self. There are a lot of psychological and medical hoops that one has to jump through in order to have gender reassignment surgery (in North America, there a waiting period of at least two years for before surgery is even considered to be a viable option) and I sincerely doubt your will is strong enough to maintain the kind of intensity required to continually push back their resistance. You’d be looking at at least a year or more of heavy work and I’m sorry to say, the will of most modern magicians is pretty weak because they depend on spirits to do all of the heavy lifting. In my opinion, this isn’t a one and done kind of curse where you just hand it off to the demon and that’s that. Sustaining the level of effort to rewrite someone at their core is very difficult and time consuming. Death would be easier to bring about than something like this.
Edit to add: My advice would be to forget about trying to get them to the point of surgery and just focus your efforts on making them feel what it’s like to live in a body that feels wrong. The psychological impact will still be traumatic for the target but will require much less sustained effort on your part.
Yeah this needs years and may not fix the issue. Some of the most virulent “gay bashers” back in the day were those who were actually gay and couldn’t emotionally process the identity, and turned that inner conflict outwards into violence against gays. You can’t predict how this would be handles and I think there may be better solutions for the issue.
This approach is, as people have noted, similar to an obsession spell, which are famous for backfiring. One thing that happens is it drives the person mad and they become aggressive, and turn that on you. Another is that it affects you not the target, or as well as the target, in this case making your own discomfort worse.
I’m hearing this is the crux of the problem:
You want them to be more understanding instead of hostile? Attacking them tends to make people more defensive and more hostile, even if it’s just subconsciously … I would suggest you try Dantalion to influence their opinion and get them a new perspective. Or we have a pretty good tutorial for influencing thought patterns here. Same caveats that if their sense of self is strong not much will happen, or they could hide it as they work through it and fix it themselves, but any seed of sympathy for your status as a victim of body dysmorphia can help.
Ive heard from multiple people swapping gender identities is possible. Whether its permanent is questionable. Whether or not it is authentic is also questionable. But it is possible none the less.
I would like to encourage anyone thinking about performing life altering surgery on themselves to get your mind and spirit aligned before such a decision is made. It doesnt matter if you’re 29yrs old or 16yrs old. Most of us have skeletons in the closet and shit that needs to be dealt with.
Dealing with these personal demons and trauma may not change someones mind on surgery, but they’ll be able to make a better decision from a point of clarity and inner wisdom. Its best to do a deep dive into yourself to find out the “why” behind the motovation before doing something irreversable.
If you believe sexual orientations can be changed with magic like I do, then you really can choose whatever direction you want to go.
Gay, Straight, Bi, its up to you. Certain orientations have certain advantages as well as disadvantages. Thinking strategically is a good approach when choosing one.
I can tell you from personal experience- yes Belial does try to take a swipe at your current gender identity. He has tried it with me. He will appear as a woman and then he will change to a snake and then he will change to a man and he will try to transition your identity by getting to you through what you do like and then transition to the opposite in the middle of what he is doing to try and get you to shift. It’s more like a joke to him and he just really gets off on the reaction of confusion. Facts. Also, read psychological books on how fetishes and paraphilias (irregular sexual desires) develop- through the images in the mind at the moment of orgasm. This is why people can be trained into and out of different preferences.