Bran, I am thinking of working with Dra’talon too, he might actually be the first spirit from the BoA I summon. I was wondering what makes you think he might be more dangerous to the magician than any other spirit from the BoA? I know he is ‘nasty’ but that should be directed to the target, I dont see why he would be any different from the other Anatels.
Appreciate your insight.[/quote]
I’m sorry for the late reply but I didn’t see your comment untill now.
Meanwhile I contacted Dra’talon so here are my findings (but remember these are MY findings, so it’s very well possible you’ll have a different experience. So here goes:
I have found that Dra’talon is very easy to evoke; actually, I didn’t intend to evoke him but instead I would only open the sigil to have “a feel” before going any further.
But once the seal was opened and connected to my intention, he appeared quite spontaneous. The impression I got in his presence confirmed my premonition, namely that he’s a predator. Nothing more, nothing less. That’s why I decided to be carefull because I wouldn’t enter the tiger’s cage just like that either.
So he’s a predator of the highest order. All he cares about is prey. He seems to be driven only by the most ancient and primeval instincts. He doesn’t care wether you direct him toward your target or accidentally toward yourself, prey is prey. There is no room to negotiate or bargain. But on the upside, he happily accepts the target you give him because it’s food for him. Just as long as you maintain your focus on the target as firm as possible and he will fulfill the task you give him.
But my premonition was useless to say the least… After all, I accidentally evoked him ( I think) and I was just sitting at my altar, in my livingroom, without a circle or such. So what was I worried about? Also, once dismissed he was gone without leaving anything dark behind.
I hope this answers your question? If not, just shoot[/quote]
In your opinion would he only be useful against human opponents or would he be good to use against enemy entities too?
I’m here to validate Bran’s take on the persona of Dra’Talon - He is one of the few Daemons/ Nethers that I’ve interacted with who seems to be utterly singular in his focus & purpose. Very much “just the facts, ma’am”. Almost an impatient feel - to get to the point and turn him loose on it. I also believe he is willing & able to assassinate anybody or anything with a lifeforce; to him the body is merely a detail.
Incidentally, there is an obscure Order of Daemons referred to as ‘Carrion’ - to me, Dra’Talon is the essence of that, as I understand their office & purpose to be…
[quote=“Bran, post:43, topic:225”]Nice Zoe,… I’m gonna do some research on Carrion; first time I heard of it.
To answer defectron: I don’t know, but my first hunch would be “no”. Simply because i doubt that a demon can be killed. But that’s what I think ;-)[/quote]
No, not ‘killed’ in the traditional sense as we understand it - its a different phyllum. But captured, neutralized, stripped of identity & returned into Source Energy can indeed be done. This is the function of the Carrion, and it is why they remain so obscure.
This is NOT to be used rashly, nor taken lightly! It is one thing to strip an entity of it’s physicalness - it is another matter entirely to presume the authority to deny an entity it’s right to exist!! Tread very carefully here…
Fortunately, Carrion have free will as to whether they will respond to even Our directives…
Bran, I am thinking of working with Dra’talon too, he might actually be the first spirit from the BoA I summon. I was wondering what makes you think he might be more dangerous to the magician than any other spirit from the BoA? I know he is ‘nasty’ but that should be directed to the target, I dont see why he would be any different from the other Anatels.
Appreciate your insight.[/quote]
I’m sorry for the late reply but I didn’t see your comment untill now.
Meanwhile I contacted Dra’talon so here are my findings (but remember these are MY findings, so it’s very well possible you’ll have a different experience. So here goes:
I have found that Dra’talon is very easy to evoke; actually, I didn’t intend to evoke him but instead I would only open the sigil to have “a feel” before going any further.
But once the seal was opened and connected to my intention, he appeared quite spontaneous. The impression I got in his presence confirmed my premonition, namely that he’s a predator. Nothing more, nothing less. That’s why I decided to be carefull because I wouldn’t enter the tiger’s cage just like that either.
So he’s a predator of the highest order. All he cares about is prey. He seems to be driven only by the most ancient and primeval instincts. He doesn’t care wether you direct him toward your target or accidentally toward yourself, prey is prey. There is no room to negotiate or bargain. But on the upside, he happily accepts the target you give him because it’s food for him. Just as long as you maintain your focus on the target as firm as possible and he will fulfill the task you give him.
But my premonition was useless to say the least… After all, I accidentally evoked him ( I think) and I was just sitting at my altar, in my livingroom, without a circle or such. So what was I worried about? Also, once dismissed he was gone without leaving anything dark behind.
I hope this answers your question? If not, just shoot[/quote]
In your opinion would he only be useful against human opponents or would he be good to use against enemy entities too?[/quote]
Or would he, at even the most minute levels, possibly be capable of teaching his trade? I would be more than fascinated to learn the art of a spiritual assassination.
@ DK, Attis & Anyone else curious about the Carrion: You will have to use the Nonphysical means of learning if you wish to know or understand more … I’m not being mysterious here. The truth is, this is how I came across the information myself. As for “documented evidence”, I only found a sliver or two, and these were mere mentions. Scry, meditate, invoke the angel, demon, daemon or nether of your choice …
@ Sukujin: Regarding the specifics of working with Dra’Talon - or any other Nonphysical Assistant - keep in mind these Beings have a vast scope of understanding, are extremely perceptive & intelligent beyond mortal understanding. If YOU have clarity, they will have clarity & all the information they need to complete the task. As far as time frame goes, I don’t even think about that much. But from my sense of Dra’Talon while he was in My presence, I’d say he enjoys “draggin it out a bit”…
Wow. I’m surprised anyone could happen to stumble on those guys. They are very obscure and the name of that order varies as they don’t wish to be discovered by just anyone. Some of them are spirits born to the astral plane and others are actually human beings like everybody else. The reason the order is known only on the astral plane is because of the knowledge they possess. The members of that order maintain anonymity even within their own ranks. They could pass by one another on the street and never know it.
Ah Kitari you tease…If you told us more I guess you would have to kill us mm
I have never heard of this order mentioned on the physical or subtle planes. A quick search of all the internet engines produces nada as i thought. Do you believe they are a demonic order with ‘operatives’ on the physical plane? Or a physical order with connections to the subtle planes?
[quote=“Neophyte, post:50, topic:225”]Ah Kitari you tease…If you told us more I guess you would have to kill us mm
I have never heard of this order mentioned on the physical or subtle planes. A quick search of all the internet engines produces nada as i thought. Do you believe they are a demonic order with ‘operatives’ on the physical plane? Or a physical order with connections to the subtle planes?[/quote]
There’s no believing about it Neophyte. What I told you is from first hand experience. They’re not people you go looking for on a whim and Zoe’s mentioning them here is the first time I’ve seen any mention of them at all in the physical plane. They’re not demonic or angelic or anything of that nature. They are warriors and they take that title very seriously. They remain obscure because of the nature of their practices and you’d be hard pressed to find anything about them.
[quote=“Zoe, post:48, topic:225”]@ DK, Attis & Anyone else curious about the Carrion: You will have to use the Nonphysical means of learning if you wish to know or understand more …
Zoe[/quote]
Neither Kitari nor I are prepared to discuss this further. I put the information out there. It is sensitive & potentially dangerous information. I trust that, as mature Mages. you take it or leave it as your own interior dictates. Kitari was not being dramatic, he wa giving you a warning … heed it.
Well thank you both for the info you could give! I doubt that I would ever deny anyone their right to exist, but it’s extremely interesting nonetheless, as new power usually is, no matter if you intend to put it to use or not. I will have to look into this at some point.
Zoe If people are going to post information particularly on hitherto unknown subjects you have to expect some amount of interest and discussion that’s what this forum does. I know you didn’t want to say more that’s why I posted to Kitari but if he also has said all he wants then of course I respect both positions and will say no more on it.
Just looking for some straight-forward clarification: Must the circle be made with red paint/ink on a black surface or is colour not a big issue?
Secondly, i recall EA commenting on his facebook page that the circle can be used for evoking any entity - therefore would it be advised to include the names of the demonic kings even if you intend to use the circle for evoking spirits totally unrelated to BOA and LHP work (in addition to those that are)?
[quote=“PyreOD, post:55, topic:225”]Just looking for some straight-forward clarification: Must the circle be made with red paint/ink on a black surface or is colour not a big issue?
Secondly, i recall EA commenting on his facebook page that the circle can be used for evoking any entity - therefore would it be advised to include the names of the demonic kings even if you intend to use the circle for evoking spirits totally unrelated to BOA and LHP work (in addition to those that are)?[/quote]
Well - I don’t think the CoP’s going to be much help in angelic evocation, if that’s what you mean. I would also assume it would be pretty pointless for any type of elemental work. However - I don’t see any problems with removing the names of the 4 kings, as you mentioned, and replacing them with say, Michael, Raphael, Uriel, and Gabriel … or even more interesting would be to put the names of the kings and/or the four elemental sigils around the design as well.
Remember though, the central figure is based on the symbol for Mercury. You might like to try replacing the central symbol with other planetary symbols, or even with other alchemical symbology. The CoP itself is more of a concept than the actual set in stone circle we use in The BoA. Pull the symbolism apart, as EA somewhat did in The BoA, and start tinkering with the pieces of the CoP’s symbolic mechanisms. I’m sure you could derive several powerful and extremely useful circles for a variety of operations.
I see. Just wanted to check, seeing as i’m planning my first steps to actually working with BoA. I think i’ve located an outdoor area near my place which should be good for evocations (since i can’t perform them in my apartment), however i still need to check it out in person.
So i’m assuming after seeing the pictures here as well as Dante’s and EA’s description, the red on black is pretty necessary, or am i mistaken?
[quote=“PyreOD, post:57, topic:225”]I see. Just wanted to check, seeing as i’m planning my first steps to actually working with BoA. I think i’ve located an outdoor area near my place which should be good for evocations (since i can’t perform them in my apartment), however i still need to check it out in person.
So i’m assuming after seeing the pictures here as well as Dante’s and EA’s description, the red on black is pretty necessary, or am i mistaken?[/quote]
I wouldn’t say they’re necessary, but I’d recommend it. It helps set the mood, as well as raises the energetic state of the room to the specific freqencies and vibrations which contribute to a successful experience with these entities.
I changed my approach and decided to get some OCB or chip board…bought a 4ft X 8ft sheet for $11. Cut it into 2 4 X 4 sections and will paint one part for Azazel material and use the other for any other workings…after the paint job, I’ll just place the 4 x 4 section under my chair while working with either the scrying mirror or regular evoking sitting in front of the altar…easy enough it appears…Thanks.
I can’t help thinking about the comment Azazel made to EA’s question of how to define the infernal empire. That the infernal empire is the operator and everything else in existance. It also reminds me of a konklusion Jake Stratton-Kent came to. That the underworld (infernal empire in Koetting’s work) is a name for everything in existance. The heavens and the olympic regions are just regions within the underworld/infernal empire. Atleast this is the konklusions from the aforementioned. Which also is indicated in the word dæmon, from the greeks which is a term for any spirit, benevolent aswell as malign and everything in between.
So I think it will be fine to call any spirit up using the dæmonic circle of pacts.
