Real Meaning; Zazas Zazas

is there an ‘real interpretation’ to
Zazas Zazas Nasatananda Zazas !

i have read a couple of definitions- they did not agree.

Anything real and solid would be great
Thankx

1 Like

I knew a practitioner (whom I have much respect for) who shared with me his manner of evoking demons. He included this incantation towards the beginning, to open the gates of hell I believe.

[quote=“Frater Dark Matter, post:1, topic:5092”]is there an ‘real interpretation’ to
Zazas Zazas Nasatananda Zazas !

i have read a couple of definitions- they did not agree.

Anything real and solid would be great
Thankx[/quote]

Not “real” in the human sense so much as a language used by different entities. People won’t even fully comprehend unless they get Rosetta Stone for Demons lol

“Zazas Zazas Nasatananda Zazas” is pretty much an ‘opening’ statement to the spirits. I’ve seen this used in many grimoires and while it is often used in reference to hell and daemons, it has in some other grimoires but the purpose of it remains the same. It is usually preceded and followed by either Latin or some other language of the same tongue dictating what is to be done or brought forth following your intent to open some gateway or portal.

I find it very useful, even by itself.

I have a working theory demons speak a kind of drunken/slurred sounding version of Enochian, with human phrases that have similar meanings in several languages worked in.

Kind of like the hybrid “thieves languages” and other similar slang and patois languages in human cultures. I have some confirmation of that, but it was stuff from an evocation so I won’t expect anyone to take that on board as solid proof.

In that case, checking this page: https://web.archive.org/web/20180213200425/http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/Letters.html

Z= they
ZACAM= I move you
ZACAR= move, move appear (so, ZA appears to relate to movement, travel, appearing/manifesting)

and

A= hast, in, on, of, with, the
AS= was
ASA= was
ASAGE= AS GE, was not
ASA-MOMARE= AS MOMAR, was (and shall be) crowned
ASAPATA= ASPT, before, in front of

So IF that’s correct, “ZAZAS” seems like a general summoning, “They are in (this world) and manifest” - a statement not unlike the statements of present tense and intended outcome combined that are used in spells and affirmations.

Just a theory but when you consider these spirits may exist outside time, telling them they will, are, and have appeared NOW by YOUR bidding makes sense.

I don’t have time to look up Nastananda but Ananda is (in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism) extreme happiness, one of the highest states of being. Maybe it’s an inviation of enjoying being here that revokes the countless times humans have burned or damned demons to torment and flames, a kind of “Appear here through gates of joy”?

Maybe Nast is derived from nasty, a word we all know, and meant to remove any sanctimonious/religious vibration in Ananda… just shots in the dark there though. :slight_smile:

I say again, working theory only but the links between a couple of enns and the syllables and some of the words in that dictionary I linked are pretty strong.

3 Likes

I have a working theory demons speak a kind of drunken/slurred sounding version of Enochian, with human phrases that have similar meanings in several languages worked in.

Kind of like the hybrid “thieves languages” and other similar slang and patois languages in human cultures. I have some confirmation of that, but it was stuff from an evocation so I won’t expect anyone to take that on board as solid proof.

In that case, checking this page: http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/Letters.html

Z= they
ZACAM= I move you
ZACAR= move, move appear (so, ZA appears to relate to movement, travel, appearing/manifesting)

and

A= hast, in, on, of, with, the
AS= was
ASA= was
ASAGE= AS GE, was not
ASA-MOMARE= AS MOMAR, was (and shall be) crowned
ASAPATA= ASPT, before, in front of

So IF that’s correct, “ZAZAS” seems like a general summoning, “They are in (this world) and manifest” - a statement not unlike the statements of present tense and intended outcome combined that are used in spells and affirmations.

Just a theory but when you consider these spirits may exist outside time, telling them they will, are, and have appeared NOW by YOUR bidding makes sense.

I don’t have time to look up Nastananda but Ananda is (in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism) extreme happiness, one of the highest states of being. Maybe it’s an inviation of enjoying being here that revokes the countless times humans have burned or damned demons to torment and flames, a kind of “Appear here through gates of joy”?

Maybe Nast is derived from nasty, a word we all know, and meant to remove any sanctimonious/religious vibration in Ananda… just shots in the dark there though. :slight_smile:

I say again, working theory only but the links between a couple of enns and the syllables and some of the words in that dictionary I linked are pretty strong.[/quote]

I could see them having the Irish equivalent of and American accent when it comes to angelic language lol. In Fact, it would be quite fitting.

I side with LadyEva, but I also found this in yahoo:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20131015235924AAiRcVg

For some reason the phrase bugs me a lot, and dunno why but Koetting’s “Alash Tad Alash Tal Ashtu” feels empty for me.

Some more well put foreward Intellect from THE Lady Eva !! Man you really work that out in a respectable way. I always have appreciated people who can tear words apart and Illucidate their meanings from the roots to the leaf!
It is funny this was the first post I read today, I went to bed thinking EA or someone really should create “An Occult Glossary for Dummies” type of book. Thinking when i win the lottery— your hired.

Biig thanx!!!

I have a working theory demons speak a kind of drunken/slurred sounding version of Enochian, with human phrases that have similar meanings in several languages worked in.

Kind of like the hybrid “thieves languages” and other similar slang and patois languages in human cultures. I have some confirmation of that, but it was stuff from an evocation so I won’t expect anyone to take that on board as solid proof.

In that case, checking this page: http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/Letters.html

Z= they
ZACAM= I move you
ZACAR= move, move appear (so, ZA appears to relate to movement, travel, appearing/manifesting)

and

A= hast, in, on, of, with, the
AS= was
ASA= was
ASAGE= AS GE, was not
ASA-MOMARE= AS MOMAR, was (and shall be) crowned
ASAPATA= ASPT, before, in front of

So IF that’s correct, “ZAZAS” seems like a general summoning, “They are in (this world) and manifest” - a statement not unlike the statements of present tense and intended outcome combined that are used in spells and affirmations.

Just a theory but when you consider these spirits may exist outside time, telling them they will, are, and have appeared NOW by YOUR bidding makes sense.

I don’t have time to look up Nastananda but Ananda is (in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism) extreme happiness, one of the highest states of being. Maybe it’s an inviation of enjoying being here that revokes the countless times humans have burned or damned demons to torment and flames, a kind of “Appear here through gates of joy”?

Maybe Nast is derived from nasty, a word we all know, and meant to remove any sanctimonious/religious vibration in Ananda… just shots in the dark there though. :slight_smile:

I say again, working theory only but the links between a couple of enns and the syllables and some of the words in that dictionary I linked are pretty strong.[/quote]

1 Like

[quote=“333, post:7, topic:5092”]I side with LadyEva, but I also found this in yahoo:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20131015235924AAiRcVg

For some reason the phrase bugs me a lot, and dunno why but Koetting’s “Alash Tad Alash Tal Ashtu” feels empty for me.[/quote]

Could be “all the above”? :slight_smile:

I was working with someone on some channeled languages that were a mix of middle-european and various other active languaes, and the words used seemed to be the type that had similar meanings in different languages, I don’t have my notes any more from this but I remember one example was a word for “pearl” - a glowy white thing - and in another language that same word meant “candle” - also glowy white, and furthermore that fit the context of the sentence.

If there’s a word that can stack into other languages to mean “Open gates of hell,” that will summon the apect of, for example, Belial, that many conceptualise as purely demonic, whilst the Enochian-influenced simple summoning inherent in ZAZAS as I outlined summons the more expensive and amiable Belial many of us meet.

All JUST a theory, I really need to do an evo properly and ask some spirits I trust for some solid answers, if/when that happens (my life’s crazy busy at the moment) I’ll be sure to share for whatever it’s worth, :slight_smile:

Hey we have some Indian people on here - do you have anything on “nast” as a prefix? I should know this stuff but while I can remember a language when I’m studying it, my retention once I stop is pretty dire…

1 Like

[quote=“333, post:7, topic:5092”]I side with LadyEva, but I also found this in yahoo:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20131015235924AAiRcVg

For some reason the phrase bugs me a lot, and dunno why but Koetting’s “Alash Tad Alash Tal Ashtu” feels empty for me.[/quote]

It is empty and means absolutely nothing. Koetting made it up to sound dark

I highly doubt it. He uses it too much for himself. Not to mention, just because something personally “sound Empty” that could be said by me about any language. I find a pretty clear ‘disdain’, on this thread for EA and what he has put foreward, and what is more telling- from folks who themselves have no ‘recognised’ or ‘reliable’ replacement. Adding to that, the scores of people who have used what he puts foreward and have had success, seems to undermine the opinions of those who always surface trying to work their wedges into what EA has produced.
If someone wants to not work the methods and words EA has produced is fine, all for it; but in my world, if someone is going to cast aspersions on him and is work; they better be bale to say–"Here is this which i have used, I guarantee it will sound Full and far out produce what EA has foisted.
Luckily, I pretty much do not know crap; of the 400 pdfs on my computer, EA’s works have always placed me Higher, farther stronger and better. Is he perfect, do I drink down all he says? NO. but I have found all my questions and “Hey, hang on, this does not line up with that story” and on and on, end up pretty meaningless in the equasion of “I want to achieve X” I work what he has put foreward as best I can and “I achieve X”.

My main issue with, 'what is the real meaning of zazas… goes mostly to the issue that i have found several differing takes on it. From reasonable
answers- to the 'angry highschooler super "Ave Satanis"ites . Why taking a swipe as EA’s “Alash” has to be brought in I am not clear.

In my world, noone has tolike him, or even support and back up what he has put out on this forum, but if ‘equally empty’ swipes at his work get thrown out, just rest asured, at least one person I know of is waiting for the “Full and Powerfilled” Optional item to put into play.

[quote=“Papa Guero, post:10, topic:5092”][quote=“333, post:7, topic:5092”]I side with LadyEva, but I also found this in yahoo:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20131015235924AAiRcVg

For some reason the phrase bugs me a lot, and dunno why but Koetting’s “Alash Tad Alash Tal Ashtu” feels empty for me.[/quote]

It is empty and means absolutely nothing. Koetting made it up to sound dark[/quote]

An easy claim to make, but devoid of any background, source, or whatever, not one to take that seriously. :wink:

An easy claim to make, but devoid of any background, source, or whatever, not one to take that seriously. ;)[/quote]

I mean to say, even when I see you were adressing Papa Guero :D, that it feels empty to me, yet it has been doing this after a while. At first it was good, but I felt afterwards not “working” with me.

Funny thing is enns work well with me as long as I whisper them but not if I record them and let them play through the operation, at least that has been the tendency until just recently when recorded enns just suddenly began working D: I guess it’s an adaptation of sorts.

You made a reasonable observation that it doesn’t work for you and feels a bit empty, after trying it, which is fair enough - I only questioned PG’s comment that E.A. “made it up to sound dark.”

Two completely different things: yours is experience, the other’s a statement implying intent, and even a level of calculating dishonesty. :wink:

I don’t use it because I don’t know what it means - I read on here that it’s a translation of the script on the UC but I have my own methods anyway so I left it alone, though that flame chant (“Itz rachu mantantu…”) kicks ass!

I like recorded enns, isn’t that weird… I whispered all mine, and also used the reverse afrin from the Azi Dahaka video a lot, though I had to listen to it overnight for nearly a month (apparently it was like demonic pre-natal vitamins for my Child) so could quite happily give that a break! lol

[quote=“Lady Eva, post:14, topic:5092”]You made a reasonable observation that it doesn’t work for you and feels a bit empty, after trying it, which is fair enough - I only questioned PG’s comment that E.A. “made it up to sound dark.”

Two completely different things: yours is experience, the other’s a statement implying intent, and even a level of calculating dishonesty. ;)[/quote]

Oh yes, I got what you meant! :smiley: I used to run across a lot of things that I’d judge without trying it first, but then I realized how inefficient and self-deceiving approach.

I used to follow the theory that states that incantations uttered in alien, unknown or directly invented language worked because of the operator’s conviction (and by extension focus) that they have a power on their own. That perhaps Enochian was something along the lines of Ouranian “barbariq” and that the claim of being an angelic or other-worldly nature is nothing but a gimmick to get the operator’s mind into that “oh I am now doing magick” mental state where doubt is erased in favor of reality-changing conviction.

But then I found out that the Simon’s Necronomicon incantations worked extremely efficiently when used for exorcism! And I had all this time thought it to be not only a hoax, but that the authors had not even used actual old languages (whatever those might be, cannot say for sure if it is Sumerian, Akkadian…?).

Same happened with some enochian parts (the elemental names of BITOM, NANTA, EXARP and HCOMA, for example), sensing something I cannot quite yet explain about the SATOR-AREPO magick square, and especially, demonic enns. I had never had a devotional approach towards the Goetic entities, not even the qlipotic ones, I acknowledged their existence but saw them more as business partners rather than the usual beginner’s fascinated approach where they place these entities above themselves.

Thing is, when I used the enns? “Is the incense smoke flowing in my direction, even when I am out here in the open and I can see the top of trees bending in the opposite direction?” That’s when I knew I stumbled upon more evidence that some things work independent to the magician’s combination of focus, conviction/devotion and projection.

There is an important thing I’ve noticed though: Some incantations that have worked efficiently in the past suddenly seem to have lost their strength afterwards.

Quite often it happens with newly discovered ones from which I had no recollection at all. It appears I must use a “fresh” incantation I have never read before for it to work, because if I read about it first and archive it for later? When the moment comes seems to not work outright.

I’ve meticulously annotated circumstances that might have made them misfire, from my emotional state, confidence and moon phase but the only common denominator is that: That it must be new.

The period of operational status varies from either a determined number of uses to a period of time, for example, one for having wishes granted (as per the grimoire I found it, the Galdrabók, is somewhere as a PDF) worked for 2 crucial situations. The classical “BARRA! EDIN NA ZU” line for exorcism of the Necronomicon? Served me for years, but then it just stopped.

It is something that merely happens. Though I CAN make them work with the necessary effort, it is way more input than its first tries. My intuition tells me I must “give something to ensure the incantation work for future users”, that there is a way to renew these incantations provided I don’t use them anymore (ever), but I cannot ascertain it. It is a rather bullshit perception, but it persists throughout the experiments D: , and I honestly don’t believe that I am exhausting the possibility that some other magician may use them because I got to use them first.

Good thing I prefer making my own through sigilization, right? :smiley:

^ That’s fascinating!

I don’t know what to make of it, but it somehow sits with the stuff I got when I evoked the spirit of the New Avatar Power book, though I didn’t evoke Arzel at the same time, which was undoubtedly a serious oversight.

Let me share the relevant bits below that support your experience:

[quote=“Lady Eva, post:1, topic:3772”]I called forth the entity, asking it to sign its name by showing me its cover above the actual book, which I wasn’t really looking at. I wasn’t using incense as a base since that messes with my sinuses, I was using clairvoyant sight, which has been completely reliable in the past since I was a kid.

When this cover image was received, like a retinal afterburn, and my own spirits confirmed it, I was set to ask my questions, when the spirit spoke first.

After showing me the cover with that weird target-like logo, it changed and looked like a small oval fireball of white, yellow and slightly violet fire, spinning horizontally as the earth spins on its axis – but it was not a happy spirit to be summoned thus.

Evocation Q & A

NAP Spirit: What do you want (in a voice and demanour that was sleepy, dusty, dead tired)

Eva: Are you a dead book?

NAP: No, but my time is gone, there will be others greater before me and after me.

At this point I need to make a note – I did both audio capture, and also typing answers with my laptop on my knees, and I had – I shit you not – begun typing certain words backwards by this point – the response, “others greater before me and after me” was typed as “others retaerg erofbr and tfare me.”

Everyone does typoes, but what’s ODD is that even in partial possession with Ahriman, I never did anything consistanly backwards, like a Hollywood movie’s conception of the diabolic.

What’s also interesting is that, as this continued during the evocation, the backwards typing only applied to concepts of time and not to nouns, pronouns, etc. This could have been typoes, I don’t rule that out, but it was very consistant, so, offering it as an observation, nothing more. To continue:

Eva: Do your rits still work?

NAP: Yes, they work well, nonetheless I am tired. (“am” was “ma”)

Eva: Am I evoking just my edition of NAP?

NAP: No, it is true of all of us, the spells fail and the miracles cannot be repeated.

Eva: Why is this?

NAP: Your time has come, the new children, the… living god. (During this bit I felt the book sending feelers into my mind for the concept “living god” it can convey – I don’t think it was specifically about this site or the works of EA, it felt like it was trying to talk down to me almost, about what it wanted to say. And still so very, very, tired and dusty.)

Eva: People love you – please, give me something new to use?

NAP: You each have within you the scrying mirror, the wishing well, it is too late to break new grounds… I bid you adeiu.

That exuent itself felt like something hurriedly hacked from my own vocabulary, and the spirit seemed so damned tired, that I gave it leave to depart, and typed this up.[/quote]

It may just be we is both crazy peeps who need to see about getting medicated, but still - there’s a distinct similarity, or at least, I see one.

I’ve been using the flame chant and, as warned somewhere on here, had two minor fires break out in the flat, one right on my desk, so I’m convinced that’s got power to it - will it retain that? Do these only have power for certain people - E.A. seems to use them all with good effect, and he’s been using them longer than anyone I’m guessing.

Hmmn… this is fascinating stuff, tied in with my “observer effect” musings, and stuff about various reality tunnels etc.

Thanks so much for sharing and adding depth to this! :slight_smile:

Just look the phrase up and try to find any traces of it in history. I was never able to. Not like enochian or theban. I think it was created just as a mantra to get your mind in the right trance.

[quote=“Frater Dark Matter, post:11, topic:5092”]I highly doubt it. He uses it too much for himself. Not to mention, just because something personally “sound Empty” that could be said by me about any language. I find a pretty clear ‘disdain’, on this thread for EA and what he has put foreward, and what is more telling- from folks who themselves have no ‘recognised’ or ‘reliable’ replacement. Adding to that, the scores of people who have used what he puts foreward and have had success, seems to undermine the opinions of those who always surface trying to work their wedges into what EA has produced.
If someone wants to not work the methods and words EA has produced is fine, all for it; but in my world, if someone is going to cast aspersions on him and is work; they better be bale to say–"Here is this which i have used, I guarantee it will sound Full and far out produce what EA has foisted.
Luckily, I pretty much do not know crap; of the 400 pdfs on my computer, EA’s works have always placed me Higher, farther stronger and better. Is he perfect, do I drink down all he says? NO. but I have found all my questions and “Hey, hang on, this does not line up with that story” and on and on, end up pretty meaningless in the equasion of “I want to achieve X” I work what he has put foreward as best I can and “I achieve X”.

My main issue with, 'what is the real meaning of zazas… goes mostly to the issue that i have found several differing takes on it. From reasonable
answers- to the 'angry highschooler super "Ave Satanis"ites . Why taking a swipe as EA’s “Alash” has to be brought in I am not clear.

In my world, noone has tolike him, or even support and back up what he has put out on this forum, but if ‘equally empty’ swipes at his work get thrown out, just rest asured, at least one person I know of is waiting for the “Full and Powerfilled” Optional item to put into play.

[quote=“Papa Guero, post:10, topic:5092”][quote=“333, post:7, topic:5092”]I side with LadyEva, but I also found this in yahoo:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20131015235924AAiRcVg

For some reason the phrase bugs me a lot, and dunno why but Koetting’s “Alash Tad Alash Tal Ashtu” feels empty for me.[/quote]

It is empty and means absolutely nothing. Koetting made it up to sound dark[/quote][/quote]

How did it work for you when you tried it?

I wasn’t that bothered to look up the flame chant but I wrote it into my personal grimoire, not something I often do with anyone else’s incantations, because it worked for me. Books are fine and interesting, but I care more about what works.

I think it was created just as a mantra to get your mind in the right trance.

A somewhat different thing to “made it up to sound dark” there, anyway. :wink:

[quote=“Frater Dark Matter, post:1, topic:5092”]is there an ‘real interpretation’ to
Zazas Zazas Nasatananda Zazas !

i have read a couple of definitions- they did not agree.

Anything real and solid would be great
Thankx[/quote]

From a Dragon Rouge file , the author said Crowely used the " Zazas Zazas … " mantra to get into a trance or meditative state, from that understanding it’s getting your mind to focus on that one thing so then your just one thing away from an empty mind but the same author gave me Kheper-A-Kheper-Kheperu while focusing on the symbol of the Dark Egyptian God " Chepera" , it put me into a trance like state second time round by playing around with the Enochian like pronunciation of elongating syllable’s.

So it could just be a mantra which suited his psyche considering he saw himself as " The Beast " and the word Satan is in the mantra.

[quote=“Lady Eva, post:16, topic:5092”]^ That’s fascinating!

It may just be we is both crazy peeps who need to see about getting medicated, but still - there’s a distinct similarity, or at least, I see one.[/quote]

Yes! Yes there is! :smiley: And you don’t know how glad it makes me to see someone else is perceiving the same thing! And about the crazyness? When it’s more than one person saying almost the same thing? Then it becomes something between a good opinion and a rule of thumb.

This is why I love this forum!

Btw, what is this flame chant? Is it in the NAP book?