I have literally been told this by spirits. To paraphrase Belial, “Stop comparing yourself to others on the forum. Spirit moves in it’s own time.”
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^ This.
I am always amused when I look down 25+ years of magick, spirit contact, and getting verifiable results, to see people with 3, 5, or 10 years moaning about all these damn newbies! 
And even if it was purely about the numbers, many people are born with some skill or link that brings them up to speed FAST, and furthermore, this is the era in history when many such people are incarnating, to assist with a cosmic r/evolution, of which things such as BALG and my own theogenesis prophecy are just aspects of the whole.
We can best discern the real experiences by sharing them - if someone joined this forum with 6 months experience, of which some was opening Belial’s sigil and wondering why they felt he wanted to them to change their sexual preferences, we can pretty much know that confused person is in contact with the same spirit who has made similar recommendations to those of us with years of practice, and regardless of whether we’re gay, straight, kinky, or otherwise.
However, if we all worry too much about appearing credible, then sharing such an intimate thing would not occur, and so we’d be holding back the concept of peer review by self-censoring, due to wanting to seem cool, and not like we think this mighty demonic King deigns to care what we like in bed. 
Agreed, this applies equally to magicians:
While I’m at it, also relevant:
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“10 years…all these damn newbies”… that whole paragraph. You have a point there. 
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I try to keep perspective, even with 16 or so years being completely obsessed with guitar I still consider myself an “Intermediate” and maybe “Advanced” player on great days even though I can play note-for-note 99% of anything I’ll ever hear and have had airplay on Australian radio/studio gigs on other artists albums as a full time set in and a guest artist. I realize music is the ultimate playground and the deeper you go, the more there is to learn. Therefore I’m an intermediate player on the world stage because I can’t hold a candle to Guthrie Govan or Andy Timmons, even though I can play a lot of their songs - they wrote them and when they did it was effortless.
That said, I know there is a fundamental skill set to learn and with guitar students I have a few ways of approaching this skill set. Same with any of my athletics clients I’ve trained. I generally won’t have someone graduate to barbell deadlifts until they can pull 315 for 5 clean reps with a trap bar.
Given your experience, what’s a solid approach for learning the main 3 skills? Namely the “let this skill or two become solid first and you’ll find it enhances these.” I know it’s a huge question but I’d like to see more of this being talked about. Everything can be deconstructed and worked on in sequence even in an abstract like music. I meditate regularly for OCD management and I’m quite used to telepathically discerning what a spirit is trying to communicate with me given my upbringing.
My first reaction to this thread was “Maybe I should focus on petitions for the next 3-6 months and practice evoking with King Paimon until I get stronger astral senses.”
Is this wise? What’s a good set of Magickal benchmarks to get to for someone like me? I’ve experienced connective evocation before but it’s different depending on the spirit I’m speaking with. I know meditation is a big deal so I’ve been taking that seriously. What would your ideal student actually do?
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Probably core shamanism, it formalises and gives an interface into spirit worlds and contact that begins with a creative act of imagination/structuring, and then the World Tree gradually infills that, with what is co-created giving way to external verifiable things.
I say this because it’s so akin to the method I created for myself as a child, where i travelled to different spirit realms using an imaginary elevator, that I know for a fact it works and that it also seems to tie into a global human archetype that’s found among every type of human, despite the many differences in our makeup that have created such different cultures and understandings of the nature of the gods, and our place in the universe.
No other method I am aware of has quite this pedigree of being universally 1. found and used by all humans and 2. coming so naturally to me as a child that I can personally verify its framework and its effectiveness.
And it will boost all senses, and give you shortcuts to use for other methods as well.
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ONE:
Do the method that comes easeist in terms of giving verifiable
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advice - for example, warning you that your boss is going to be in a shitty mood tomorrow, so keep a low profile and don’t pull that sickie you were thinking of taking to watch some sports, and keep note of how often ideas that can’t come from you have helped you in ways you could not foresee
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manifest results - they tell you to visit town even though you’re too skint to shop, you find $50 at the bus stop or get given a voucher for groceries - keep a small note of these things as well
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comprehension that aids you, does not destabilise - yes, it’s all very nice that you’re the incarnation of Odin/Thoth/Zeus himself, but so are we all, albeit to different degrees, the truly useful thing is to help you reconstruct your understanding of the world and your own experiences so that you no longer feel like a victim, a thing bobbing haplessly in an ocea of other things.
Do the things that come easiest because they will build muscles (so to speak) that make the other stuff easier as well, if all you can do is astral journey to one spirit (for example) but you get results, do it as often as you can, other skills will follkow along.
Having one spirit or method that you know you can rely upon is the key to unlocking all other things) because it will save you from pursuing dead ends and guide you towards your next success.
Two:
Read The Kybalion (PDF, archived link). Nothing is more important for removing confusuon over which spirits are “real” and also, how magick works, and how group observation changes things.
This will unfuck probably 99% of things that will otherwisde use your own common sense and intellect to bar you from achieving amazing results with magick.
Three:
Try other things, keep your eyes open, never rule out a paradigm, concept, or method, once you have your core skill (listed in One above) you can ask for advice on what comes next.
This was how I got to “become as” the Angel of Lost Things, which was nowhere on my consciously planned list but has been both very educational, and empowering, it’s also assisted me in the cosmic shifts I was aiming for with my core manifesto of global theogenesis. 
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Sure it does. It weeds out pretenders and lazy shytes so people that need help and want to do the work can get it. I don’t generally comment on any posts where I feel my time is being wasted, mostly because it is already a waste of my time having read the BS in the first place.
Sure, some methods cause faster results in certain areas; this rant is directed at people that are obviously full of shit. I have no problems creating an us and them scenario with these types because they are going on a magick forum and have nothing to do with magick. That is in fact an us and them scenario. Sorry, I absolutely do not feel everyone deserves equal attention or an explanation, and I certainly do not think we are all equals in terms who should be given attention. I firmly believe we reap what we sow.
Yeah, that is not the context of LARPing I meant. Ritual garb absolutely has a place in some folks’ practices and I take no issue with it.
In a way I feel we all are, just some are more predisposed to it than others, kind of like athletic ability.
Well I certainly do. Nobody mentioned anything about being above beginners, but there is no shame in understanding degrees of experience. Would you find any issue with taking someone who has never driven before and handing them the keys to Lamborghini? It’s basically the same thing. At what point did we become so open minded that the concept of being responsible for our advice should also come with no drawbacks?
I did. I saw a problem of people faking and being lazy, called it into court, and my call has been answered by a healthy amount of folks with a like mind. I did also suggest a solution, remember?
I don’t recall saying that. I said that it was potentially dangerous to advise a beginner to engage in spirit work with zero experience and zero knowledge and zero skill. If you don’t like what I have to write, do what I do when I read something I do not like; move on.
Yeah, an open mind is great, but at what point does it become so open that any crap can just be poured in. Look, we are not ‘special’, so when I hear bullshit and smell bullshit it is probably bullshit. But, I think we have had this conversation once before, have we not?
The most smug thing I have seen yet is the fact that you think this is a set up, and it sure as shit is smug for you to assume my motivations or any others’ either.
Then why the fuck are you commenting?
I have seen nobody in this thread making any such claims. I have seen more than a few respectable members echo my sentiment that this is something that has been an annoyance. Don’t like the conversation? Don’t join it.
First off, don’t EVER tell me what to do. Second, I hold nobody to any standard that I do not hold myself to even more intensely. So, when I see someone who wants to be lazy or just outright lie I have no issues calling the problem to the carpet. Why? Because I am an absurdly hard worker and almost infallibly honest with people I respect; I have no patience for that horse shit.
The fact that I made this a general rant in the first place shows the breadth and depth of my magnanimity.
Nobody is complaining about newbies here, ma’am. We are, however, annoyed with liars and laziness. Maybe we are complaining about them because it clogs the forum and inhibits actual conversations between real practitioners. When have I ever been anything but kind to a beginner? I think you have grossly misunderstood the spirit of this thread.
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I annoyed HOGD teachers with trying to jump ahead, saying I was doing the work when I wasn’t, and got pissed off when I was called on it. That’s why I keep a journal here stating the days Dreams, Physical notes, Mental notes, Rituals, Synchronicities, Meditations … My work I do and try to record every day. If I didn’t do shit I honestly state that for the given day.
Why?
I’m holding myself accountable and see where I need to improve on. Just because I get pissy when called out doesn’t mean I’m entitled to jump ahead, which is as damning for a teacher as it is for me.
In their grade system, I can say I’m barely of an initial pre-adept air grade.
Honesty, yes, honesty is beneficial for yourself and others. I’m not better than anyone else, I can say this because I know I’ve not mastered much … I may be fair at tarot, but I dont see tarot saving my ass in an astral fight or if an entity turns on me … Except divining beforehand to know what to expect.
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That spirit encountered by some of us that was on Conner Kendall lept to mind. I recall trying to read him for not more than two seconds and being filled with terror.
Whoever the entity was must have a wallet that says “Bad Mother Fucker” embroidered on it.
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Lmao, okay.
…
Yeah, your example really doesn’t fit the argument you are trying to make there.
A better example would be to perhaps try possession with a random ass spirit you never knew from before and that isn’t found in any grimoire.
And that is why every person needs discernment.
You have discernment to smell the bullshit, but for some reason you act as if you are afraid of having too much ‘crap’ poured in. What gives?
No.
It’s not what I think - it’s what is written in the post. I refuse to believe you are unable to realize what you yourself wrote in that post.
As for your motivations - doesn’t matter. What is written is written.
You are misquoting what I said. Read my post again.
Lmao.
Never told you what to do - it was meant for everyone - nor do I care about you.
Also… really?
Cool.
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Lady_Eva, those are three great points.
When you just spend most of your time unironically doing what exactly?
That is all anyone really needs to know isn’t it, and all i care to add, thank you that really made my day.
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I’m fairly libertarian with most things, and magick is no exception. If a newbie asks for help to summon something insane, my stance is to not treat them like a child. I’d give them a friendly disclaimer as a warning, but i’m going to help them out if i can, because this stuff isn’t a secret anymore, and i believe people should be free to make these choices for themselves without me having to babysit them, or act as some sort of gatekeeper to knowledge. People have enough agency to be responsible for themselves and their choices, and i feel the reason this forum does so well is because it gives people the tools and leaves the decision making on how to use it with them.
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You got me. It’s all lies! Hehe.
Loved the post, and wholeheartedly agree.
I’m no Ipsissimus level sorcerer. All I have are my experiences, including failures and advice on how to avoid my failures.
My goal here is simple. I try to share my discoveries and techniques in return for all the advice and sharing that goes on.
One of my greatest hopes for this forum is that people share real experiences. I have been honest with mine. Btw, although evocation (and a severe instance of physical manifestation) has helped me with fear response, I still get startled.
Several years later and, although I am a real, practicing, self-initiated Sorcerer, I have not called on the demonic kings. Baby steps.
As a matter if fact the time to call on the Kings is finally here. (Hopefully this weekend!)
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So, to sum it up:
Other ways to sum it up:
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Haha! 
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So riddle me this: if they do not have developed astral senses and zero experience, how would they know the difference? You’re so smart then spell it out for me…
And I’m smug? Instead of your cute little ‘lmfao’, how about a quote of me? Or is it just an amusement for your smug ass to call others out for doing exactly what you are doing in the process?
Because I have shit to do with my mind besides working as a BS filter.
I’m pretty sure we did. It wasn’t you who jumped down my throat for suggesting it was no crime to call a crazy person crazy? And then the whole ‘open mind’ schtick ensued.
Whoah, whoah, whoah, what happened to your open mind, lol?
No, that was a direct quote. You said:
Direct quote. Who gives a fuck? Then why do you give a fuck enough to spoon feed me this nonsense?
You assume much for someone accusing others of being smug.
I did. Three times. I wanted to make absolutely sure I understood it before I chose to take a giant shit on it.
Yeah. Really. And whether you are singling me out or the group, it is still a piss poor idea.
Not following you @charles9. Expound?
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So your concept is this - someone is about to join because they truly think they’re talking to Belial or wheoever, but then they read this and think “Damn, that dude is onto me even though I believe in what I’m doing, I better skedaddle”?
I don’t understand the problem you’re trying to fix here, to be honest - knowing trolls, or people whose contact with spirits does not meet your own standard of reality? Genuine question there btw.
If you spot someone posting in a way you consider so fantastical as to be disruptive and vampiric of member’s time and attention, click the three little dots on their post and flag it.
It won’t notify them nor cause the post to be removed (three different people flagging it will, however. hide it, so folks spot something truly egregious, flag away, on multiple posts if they have them, even when you think someone else may have done so).
When you hit a flag, it will bump it to the top of the Staff reading list, and we can take a look - odds are if it’s a troll we’ll be able to find that out easily, maybe block them from posting and have a PM chat, no-one watching will be any the wiser so no bad name sticks to that person if they are genuinely just misguided and actually doing the work.
But the problem is the “them” remains this nebulous strawman, and I’ve seen what that does to forums once people begiun going down that route, it tends to lead to one person shaming a newbie for stepping out of place, then another joins in, and so a thread can become like 50+ posts of outright bashing in a few short hours.
IF that were permitted to become the culture (and obviously, it will not), sooner or later the forum dies, because even the “good” newbies get burned off it, and people who join with experience but don’t realise they need to justify themselves to some council of the almighty also get burned, for seeming to punch above their weight.
No, but neither would I tell them not to visit the most experienced driving instructor because as a newbie, they only deserve some guy who’s taught a few of his neighbours to drive.
Belial, Ba’el, Amaymon et al put their names into such prominence for a reason - to be known, to be summoned, and they can all provide familiars or egregoric interfaces (for want of a better term) that can operate at the beginner level, sparing the attention-bandwidth, so to speak, of that entity.
And I state again, has anyone experienced demonic Kings saying “Do not bother me with newbies, only send me experienced mages”?
At what point does anyone here have a 100% reliable reality compass by which they can absolutely verify another person’s experiences?
Until that exists, ignore stuff you don’t relate to, flag anything you consider to be trolling/LARPing for fun, and get back to me when demonic Kings (who afaik are 100% behind the BALG concept of making magick available without tedious assessments and grades to apoly first) start telling us that they’re tired of newbie questions. 
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No worries dawg, I will spell it out for you - I am giving you an example of what a dangerous action would be for a newbie, since you are unable to give one properly in your argument.
I did.
It’s literally right below it. Re-read my reply to you.
Lmao.
Nah, I only go for girl’s throats. I’m more into females, yknow.
Ah, just that I gave you the benefit of the doubt - that you are able to analyze your own writing and realize what you are writing.
Interesting how easy it is to misinterpret something, right? And you still haven’t realized it.
Re-read my original reply, maybe you’ll understand then.
Three more times for you it is.
You seriously don’t understand why I said “really?”… Perhaps try reading @charles9’s reply, maybe you’ll get it.
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I feel like this entire thread should be locked… while the OP made some good points, this thread has devolved into people sniping at each other and not actually contributing to discourse in a meaningful way.
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