Probably my last post here - Something I've discovered

[Ravenxoxo]

You’re so WISE, truly
<3

[Lady_Eva]

@Abythoth

Would that be accurate?

Yes, though in a very complex way - I think the author/character analogy is good.

That which is above, is like that which is below… we “percolate” through the principles, and that holds the key.

@Ravenxoxo

You’re so WISE, truly
<3

Not so sure about that (but thanks) - just been at this a long time!

[Abythoth]

@Lady_Eva

Yes, though in a very complex way - I think the author/character analogy is good.

That which is above, is like that which is below… we “percolate” through the principles, and that holds the key.

Hehehe
Thanks for the elucidation.

[Dinmiatus]

@Abythoth

The Book believes we/all spirits and entities are mental contructs of the MIND of the ALL?

Would that be accurate?

From the perspective of the ALL yes.
From our perspective things are very different.

You have to remember to take things from from both the absolute perspecrive of the all and the relative perspecive of self.

To quote the book " The spirit of my creator is inherent within me and yet i am not HE"

[Abythoth]

@Dinmiatus

You have to remember to take things from from both the absolute perspecrive of the all and the relative perspecive of self.

Wise perceptive!

@Dinmiatus

" The spirit of my creator is inherent within me and yet i am not HE"

I remember this.
I stopped at that line for a few minutes hehehe

[Lady_Eva]

^ Yup - Divine Paradox, it’ll fuck people up every time unless they’ve got it clear in their own mind!

Gonna quote my badself:

@Lady_Eva

This is discussed in the Kybalion as the Divine Paradox: the infinite All witnesses the universe as a dream; the finite (us) witnesses the universe as real. To think as God is to be in a state of detached “mountain-top consciousness” which is incompatible with everyday life and everyday consciousness with desires, hopes, etc.

The universe is; and is not - these two poles of truth are the Absolute and the Relative - and half-truths, such as when new-agers play “blame the victim” towards someone who’s manifested an illness, are a trap for feeble minds.

The concept that you create your own reality is only useful when you are on the inside, experiencing it as an empowering belief, and should never be used to dismiss someone else’s cry for help (and that works out logically, as well - if you hear their cry, then by that theory you’ve manifested them into your life and arguably have a partial duty towards them for the event and their suffering, which is also your own manifestation. The only way out of that duty is to make the decision that they and their suffering are completely irrelevant, in effect deleting them from your own reality field by ceasing to care, but that’s not a step most new-agers who tell victims of abuse that they must have manifested it for some reason are willing to take).

This seeming paradox regarding what is, and is not real, is an aspect of the Principle of Polarity described in the Kybalion.

This is why the RHP argument “Everything is as it should be/is according to God’s will” is a cop-out, because what’s right for God/the All/Source is a different thing to what matters to us, the finite differentiated beings who have to deal with it at ground-level.

[Abythoth]

I have one question.
A demon/angel/elementals - All spirits,Yes?

What qualifies a Spirit to be a God?

Aren’t all spirits in a relative sense God?

[Lady_Eva]

It’s a label, like “demon” - usually applied to beings who will answer prayer, without requiring elaborate evocation or soul travel to specific locations in order to make contact. That’s my take on it anyway.

[Lady_Eva]

@Abythoth

Aren’t all spirits in a relative sense God?

All FORMS, all THINGS - catshit, dead bodies, murder, vomit, you name it - all within the All, therefore, all, also, “God.”

Hence the practices of some Hindu and Buddhist sects (and probably others, lost to history) who meditated upon these things to break the aversion.

When you truly see ALL FORMS as manifestations of God, then you begin to grasp the truth of the All within YOU.

[Abythoth]

@Lady_Eva

It’s a label, like “demon” - usually applied to beings who will answer prayer, without requiring elaborate evocation or soul travel to specific locations in order to make contact. That’s my take on it anyway.

Thanks!

It’s just i am sometimes confused when people say some “gods” were demonized
It made it seem like demons are low ranking when compared to gods.

So i was like - What makes one God?

[Abythoth]

@Lady_Eva

All FORMS, all THINGS - catshit, dead bodies, murder, vomit, you name it - all within the All, therefore, all, also, “God.”

Wisdom! [quote=“Lady_Eva, post:43, topic:19409”]
When you truly see ALL FORMS as manifestations of God, then you begin to grasp the truth of the All within YOU.
[/quote]

Totally agree.

[nikki]

This is a general open question.

If you do not believe in anything that is fine. It is your prerogative and choice. I do not down anyone no matter what they believe. My question is simple. If you don’t believe it is anything other than your own mind and you think it is all bologna that’s fine, but why are you here, and why do you feel it is imperative that you not only state your beliefs but feel compelled to argue your point with those who do believe or may be still undecided to prove your point and change their belief to yours. That is really unnecessary and unfair. It reminds me of a certain group of individuals who go door to door tdying to force their beliefs down everyone’s throat. If you have doubt or DON’T believe, fine. State your point. But DON’T sit here in a room that is supposed to be filled with open minded MAGICKAL people and force your oppinion down everyone’s throat until you hear yes. you are right. You are not going to get it from me and i am going to say hey. That’s enough if no one else will. Thank you for your oppinion. If you want to leave, have a happy… but don’t start preaching until you hear what you want from everyone. THAT DOUBT hurts those who are just beginning and for them i am speaking out. MAYBE I sm taking this whole thread wrong but … enough is enough. Believe or DON’T. Stay or leave. State your case and move on. Don’t brow beat those who do believe and want to try. How dare you.

[Dinmiatus]

@Abythoth

So i was like - What makes one God?

What quantifies something as a god?
What quantifies something as less than a god?
What quantifies a thing as beyond a god.

Regardless of origin pondering on this in meditation can lead down some strange rabbit holes if you really wanna know. Then the trick is to learn to apply what you learn practically thats where it gets fun.

2 things though.

1. Some shit once learned and experienced you can not unlearn!
2. You do weird shit weird shit will happen.

[Lady_Eva]

@Abythoth

Wisdom!

“The truth is out there.”

Esteemed forum member Baal’s doubt was as real and divine a creative clay as that which we use to structure in evocation, AND it had the advantage that the mass-observed shared “reality” follows certain grooves in which things take their most probable course, which in this case was to obey the clockwork reality, in which magick isn’t real.

@nikki, I hear you but I don’t, personally (not mod-hat or anything) see what Baal prosted as browbeating, he did the work after all - tried an experiment, gave it time and effort. And that would be enough IF doubt/belief weren’t themselves factors in magick, along with probability and anomalous knowledge, for reasons outlined at length above.

“I can’t make this work, this sucks!” is the sacred mantra of every student of a new art, ever…

[Abythoth]

Haha…

Weird shit always happen to me even when i do normal things hehehe

[Abythoth]

@Lady_Eva

Esteemed forum member Baal’s doubt was as real and divine a creative clay as that which we use to structure in evocation, AND it had the advantage that the mass-observed shared “reality” follows certain grooves in which things take their most probable course, which in this case was to obey the clockwork reality, in which magick isn’t real.

Shit! That dart hit a perfect score.
Thanks for the enlightening words,Lady Eva

But.
I’d still like someone to prove Baal wrong
By getting the exercise right hehe

[nikki]

I hear you. I was just seeing it going back and forth point by poiint line after kine of if someine said why they believe it being challenged and “debunked.” If you doubt fine, but don’t start trying to get everyone else to do it too. That is the dame as trying to get everyone to believe. Didn’t we go through enough if that already? Im sorry. But considering how hard we struggle to keep doubt at bay, even us seasoned practitioners deal with it frim time to time, I find it at the least rude and at the worst completely destructive of a new practitioners abilities and even future in the craft. We have been through enough fighting to be ourselves and believe what we do. I just saw the arguing back and forth as detrimental to others abilities and growth. It was not the original post i was complaining about. Maybe I’m just a bit too sensitive today. It has been a rough one.

Peace

[dagar]

At the risk of seeming like I Know it all (far from it) I would have to say that I actually encourage this. I’m one who believes in testing things to be true and I believe one of the best ways to do that is by going against something or someone who disagrees with you

[Lady_Eva]

@nikki

But considering how hard we struggle to keep doubt at bay, even us seasoned practitioners deal with it frim time to time,

And to me, therein lies the value of his post, and the exposition it drew forth…

He’s given voice to what someone else out there uis undoubtedly feeling, as well, but cannot post for some reason.

It’s like the repeated questions by new members, each time they draw an answer, it’s also being read by many more who can’t post, maybe because they lack the confidence, are afraid, or live in one of the many regions of the world where being active on a forum like this is dangerous.

The “no such thing as a stupid question” concept!!

[nikki]

You are right Lady Eva. Like i said. I have had a really hard day and emotionally I’m fried. I am probably just … ok… I AM being to sensitive. Thanks.