OPEN DEBATE : Is The Lovecraftian Current Legit/Real

General Discussion
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First Some Context

Look I’ll be honest with you for a heck of a long time I’ve badmouthed the lovecraft current of “magick” I won’t say it’s not effective because that’s simply not the case. Any system we create can be effective even with pop culture egregores, thoughtforms and artificial spirits. I’ve seen and witnessed some crazy things with people who told me they worked with “anime” entities to which I laughed at, but it yielded results and it’s obvious why, these characters are massive. They’re all over television, streaming services, manga, merchandise, hell people even have posters of them in their bedroom, even large figures which costs literal hundreds act as literal idols to these things.

They’re fed so much attention, time and energy there’s no wonder why they can be applied in the world. Although that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re impressive to me, I’ve held my own experiments in communicating with spirits of the “artificial” category, and communication with them doesn’t seem interesting, it doesn’t yield any knowledge or information which I had no prior understanding of, nor have they really had an impact on my growth or ascent whatsoever. Applying them to cause a change however is a different thing, as pretty much anything can be harnessed as a battery to cause change.

Anyway let’s digress,
I do enjoy Lovecraft’s works of fiction, I have for a very long time however, I know it’s fictional. I myself have even tried to “contact” these said, old ones. I was thoroughly unimpressed, truth be told I would probably prefer a anime character. Yet I see more and more gravitated to this current, I see more and more so called claims that they’re “real”. Of course my issue with the word “real” is technically speaking even things we don’t consider real, in the astral domain can be interacted with, these fall into that fictional and “artificial” category once again.

I am aware of course this debate may open up with the concept of all spirits, gods and entities being thought-forms. Now at the big picture one could say all things are a thought-form, from a hermetic stand point all things are forms of the thoughts within the infinite mind of god, ergo all things are thoughtforms. I also understand many will debate that all beings are mere psychological projections of one’s psyche as well as the concept that we are the creator of all gods.

Yet beings such as Azazel, Ahriman, Melek Taus, and so many others I’ve interacted with, there’s no doubt in my mind whatsoever that at least for me they predate humanity. I understand this may also fall into the concept of the theory of subjective reality and objective reality.

Here’s what I would like to do with you all, open up this topic as a debate area. Do you believe these entities in the Lovecraft mytho’s are real and not artificial, if so why and what’s your “evidence” or “claim” to back this up. If you don’t believe they’re real by all means do leave your options here too. I am very interested to see what you all have to say, of course keep it respectful and keep to the rules of the forum.

Sincerely,
C.Kendall.

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Carl Nagel in 1989 create the first public book about them public rituals before tat I dnt know if was a open book on tat, then are coven’s on Mexico of dagon.and chulthu who are very active whorspi and getting adept,also they are a few Necro books around specific Italian and French editions I tink you are British…I saw in Amazon a guy claiming to be a master of necromicon cult 2 months ago,and another the original master show.and tey are secret cults who worship tat entities or old gods,which rituals of sex and invocations are still practice also I have read of few choronzon azatot etc were crowley, Lovecraft and another guy even maybe the spelling was mistake but it’s similar,irsall I know becase in Mexico dragon is worship for money and knowledge,the guy who belong to the cult make a win in a electrician competition and won by making a no electric lightbulb ,it was stolen.becaese he was being followed,but claimdagon give him knowledge,Carl Nagel on book of old ones make a few claims,I believe in them.to be outpace,creatures,who feed on blood, greddy and worship,can be archeons or even worst

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All mythology stems from individual inspiration at one point or are another. The question imo is whether or not is resonates with you, not if its objectively real.

Im sure Lovecraftian beings exist somewhere in/ outside our universe, but do they match Lovecrafts UPG 100%? Probably not. I think Lovecrafts characters are best viewed from the standpoint of their essence; cosmic horror indeed exists.

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Eh, I just don’t honest “get” it. Maybe I don’t understand “cosmic horror”, or why people have it, I think it’s kind of … small thinking, to be honest.

Philosophically I have no issue with the idea that a being that thinks nothing like humans, and doesn’t care about us, exists. Why is it so horrific for something not to care about me? I’m pretty sure I don’t care about it either…? And, we do this ourselves it to myriad beings every day, so isn’t it also kind of hypocritical, to get so het up about something we do to others all the time?

I’m a stoic though, so I see Lovecraft as someone with mental emotional issues that badly needed therapy and to get himself in hand. He was abused and heartbroken, and had no tools to deal with it, of course he had nightmares. He turned it into great creative writing, but I think that’s all it was.

As an example of a thing that is vast and doesn’t care about us, I’ve talked on here before how I’ve seen the great spirit “beasts” at the edge of the universe as have you, so big the entire material manifestation of billions of galaxies looks ant sized in comparison, why would they care about a thing that’s dust to them? This is not horror, it just is. (UPG notwithstanding.)

But we are connected to all of it, we can be that big and go look at them as aspects of ourselves as god, we are not separate and we don’t have to be all “them and us” about this. At a very real level we are them too.

So I think the Lovecraftian pantheon are egregoric, but that egregores are still real. Whether they are avatars for something larger is likely I think.

But then I think he also misunderstood them, mixed them up with other entities, with parasites he undoubtedly attracted, and his own inner pain. We can tap into it because he manifested them and shared them, we made them. Basic dreamworking students starting out know how to be discerning about their dreams do better than he did. But he didn’t have the info and support they do today.

But whatever underlies the current, if anything, really, really doesn’t give a shit. Not about us, or about Earth, or the sun or the galaxy. We have no0thing they can see and if they wiped us out they wouldn’t notice.

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I don’t think reality exists, so in my opinion if you legitimately wanted to work with a “real” Lovecraftian current, then there’s nothing stopping you from treating it as real and work with a more legitimate set of entities that aren’t just parasites or egregores.

However, even if we just look at the experiences? Well, part of me feels there’s some legitimate energy associated with the concepts of these entities that comes from my imagination.

And honestly, I do feel that they are real.

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I couldn’t agree with you more,
I believe each point you touched on here is exactly what I myself had theorised when it comes to this, it’s really interesting to see the things you’ve touched on here too.

Especially the concept of attracting parasites to him, and we all know how parasites are with their mischief and lies claiming to be some ancient god or supreme deity.

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I don’t see the difference between them and any other god or demon or whatever entity though they do seem to pack a bigger punch. Ultimately all things exist, it is only a matter of where they exist relative to ones own location in the system.

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I don’t think any of Lovecraft’s characters/gods/whatever are legitimately real. They are a cool concept though.

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@C.Kendall The first thing to consider about Lovecraft is the gods of his mythos are not spiritual entities, they are monsters. They are materialistic beings of greater or lesser intelligence with no significant spiritual footprint. Channeling the beings of Lovecraft’s mythos is akin to Channeling dinosaurs.

Now, it’s entirely plausible that in the commonly observed world there are abyssal creatures of staggering proportions waiting to manifest. I could even grant it.

But they would not be more than animals. Or very intelligent animals, or fairly stupid sentient beings. Cthulhu isn’t known for his intellectual prowes or his will in summoning black Magick. He is known for being scary and the potential implications.

Could such a creature have an astral footprint? Sure- the scope of its dreams. But with what intensity
And complexity does such a creature dream?

I think the metaphysics of lovecraft’s mythos are assumed to be more godly than they are- they’re scary animals. Not much more.

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I got the book clavicula necronomicon a very private. Copy of a occultist belong to few lodges,in here he talk about especial ports, and how use some seals for everything in life mind they will come to you in dreams and show you the abbysm.100 pages .how to call them and why and results.i dnt have worked whit it or plain.

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They certainly do! Following the ritual from Carl Nagel’s The book of the Old ones, you visualize standing in their energy, then communicate your wish. Well, with some of them the energy they gob smacked with me was so strong I almost fell to the floor, and with some the energy had come so creepingly I was disappointed during the ritual and didn’t notice how much energy the had hit me with until after the rituals when I went to sit down and write in my journal and was all woozy. This goes for Shub-Niggurath, Hastur, Yog-Sothoth and Cthulhu. I think Nyarlathotep gave me a similarly fat knock out of energy.

I definitively believe they are real. When they lived on Earth they may well have looked like in Lovecraft’s dreams, and hence caused nightmares as they tried to enter back into humanities consciousness. I believe the were djinn (agreeing with The Atlantean Necronomicon (AN)) and these guys could look monstrous, so it fits. One djinn I read of was describe as a hole in the desert with teeth around the edges and tentacles inside and it smelled of fish.

When I work with them now I have noticed that they, like many other spirits after a while shows you how they actually look or change to a more modern look if you send them that thought. They want you to be able to work with them without feeling discomfort. E.g. when I visualized Chthulhu as normal man height, after a few times I suddenly noticed that I was looking between two large legs, and as I raised my eyes I saw that it was Cthulhu when I reached his head. Many entities I have worked with have shown themselves as giants after some sessions - flagpole height, 20m. Horus, Astarte…
Sometimes when a spirit picks up on you having a hard time visualizing them, they can send you a picture, or after you have asked them for one.

They can also be quite physical as I have written here a few times. E.g. I called the servitors of Nyarlathotep called Gugs. It felt exactly like someone was pressing more and more beachballs to my head, until I felt there was enough. I then communicated my wish to them and the all popped off and a great relief was felt and I took a deep breath.

Sometimes they come to you too, like Nyarlathotep came to me looking angry when I had worked with The Void. I then learnt that he guards the connection from our reality to there. I believe our physical reality is a bubble in The Void.

So, from what AN writes in their analysis of the Necronomicon, the djinn first created amphibians, that I assume lived in underground lakes, and after a while another sort was created that went to live on land - humans. Ereshkigal followed, leaving Enki and Enlil behind. This fits with Enki and Enlil being Annunaki and reptilians. But if all mentioned were created in this world is another question, if the whole Terra Infinita thing by Nos Confunden is indeed a soft release.

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So my questions are do you tink are cosmick beings,? Are they kind or hate humans on you point of view? I hear of Stellaris a guy who write necronomicon stuff in Italia he has 2 books, I stay away from Joshua free stuff, but also their abbysm or void or darkness world is a space portal ,or another dimension,? And do you know people’s who work whit them to get money sex etc from there,? And wat is their relationship whit another archeons,cosmic beings,? And yes enki leol history is a fact to me, since I search for while,and Carl Nagel really do a breakthrough on tis book the old ones.

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The Old ones does not hate humanity, but the physical Annunaki who gave us civilization, but also enslaved us, wants to control us. That is why I stopped working with the Necronomicon spellbook, at least until I read Duvendack say Marduk was not actually one of the Annunaki the other day, he just helped them out in the war against the Old ones and the created the world and us from them. Don’t know where his loyalty stands today.

I believe Tiamat originally resided in The Void, but since Marduk created the world from her she is now also part of our physical reality.

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I do believe that these beings are real.

In my personal experiences I have found that they may even be avatars or aspects of different deities.

My experiences with Cthulhu were incredibly intense. On my 19th birthday I had dreams where I was being pulled into the ocean until I was facing him. The water felt warm and I felt oddly comfortable in his presence. There were voices all around me chanting his name. I usually see him as huge and he’s holding my entire body in the palm of his hand. I tend to view his skin as a deep grayish blue-green, six dark blue eyes, and the signature face tentacles. When I woke up I felt nervous because I have heard of other’s having bad experiences with beings from the Lovecraftian mythos (including those that believed these beings are parasitic), but these dreams continued. In my waking life I was getting constant signs from his as well until I gave in and decided to do a deity reading with someone I trusted. The reader confirmed he was interested in me and had been wanting to work with me. I also checked my own energy and saw that my energetic systems felt clear and if anything I felt more protected/stronger than before spiritually after meeting him.

I have found him to be a great source of protection, calmness, healing, and wisdom. He has taught me new healing and cleansing systems. As well as introduced me to the concept of energetic implants and how to remove them. When I first became seriously interested in astral projection I asked him for assistance and he pulled me out of body with ease. He has also warned me when others were acting against me and protected me as well as my family from physical accidents and spiritual harm. I know my experiences are likely somewhat different than others who have interacted with him. I don’t pick up on feelings of hatred for humanity or anything like that. All I personally care about though is that there is a real bond and that this working relationship brings results.

When talking to him he made a comment that he has a connection to Leviathan. I strongly feel that he may be an aspect of him. Or that there is something larger working through both of them/kind of like they are a filter to be able to work closer with humanity. This is just my UPG.

My connection to Cthulhu also caught the attention of Nyarlathotep. He sent me an incredibly vivid dream in which I was given a ritual for summoning a “divine being.” I remember the entire atmosphere of the dream feeling eerie. It started with me going to a store for supplies. When I was done with this on the way out I saw a figure that was hiding its face. He said he was there to give me my first “test” if I really wished to make contact with the divine being. There was a whip on the table beside him and I immediately understood what he met. I picked up the whip and started cracking it against his skin. (So out of character for me, even if it’s a dream.) As I continued whipping it was like his human flesh was falling away and he was quickly becoming more other. I said, “you’re him aren’t you?” Before leaving to the parking lot and staring up at the sky. The sky was dull and in it hung a large black sun, tendrils reaching across the sky with it at the center. I simply nodded in understanding before walking away.

The dream ended early. I think a part of me felt I wasn’t ready at the time. It simply ended with me sitting at the seaside and calling out until Cthulhu responded. He appeared immediately after and said he would intervene.

I have had other experiences with Nyarlathotep where he questioned me about my thoughts, morals, and basically everything that makes up a person.

I feel if they were really egregores I would pick up on all the thoughts of them not caring for humanity/wishing to destroy it since that’s what most people sum up these stories to. I have not experienced that at all. I believe these beings predate humanity and have a lot of wisdom to share.

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I wouldn’t say they’re more or less real than alot more popular entities out there. Fresher/newer ironically, like new in the sense they may have just started being more active with humanity.

I would say these enitities just let Lovecraft ficitionalize them to give them some sort of medium to interact with others and solidify their existence a little. Even if their medium isn’t real they plug into concepts like the Ain Soph/Void/Khaos/Dao/Abyss pretty well, and that gives them a pre-existing element.

If you really think them being artificial effects their force or existence, than why not compare them to Lucifer? He’s historically just as fictitious (over a longer timespan) yet still quite potent. He’s given knowledge and aid to many practitioner, but since his existence is legimatimized by Christianity people don’t question it as much. It might just be that the Lovecraftian current needs a few more centuries to do just the same.

All of this in mind, hoe you perceive them is going to be affected by how much you resonate with them, and some people just don’t, same thing with some popular worshipped entities. I also think mental openness has something to do with it as well.

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As a writer myself, I do not create my stories. My characters show me their lives, and I write them down. Sometimes the characters are indecisive about how they will look, and wait until a person walks by whose faces appeal to them, then they reveal their stories to me.

Having said that, “I think there is something real about these characters of Lovecraft, but I do not think everything he wrote was exactly what it is.”

It could’ve been heavily filtered by his consciousness. I often laugh at the name Shub Niggurath, knowing that Lovecraft was also afraid of black people, according to himself, and he was generally quite a racist.

Did the name, Shub Niggurath come through a filter? I don’t know. I’m just spitballing at this point.

Anyway, I don’t know.

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We first have to discuss what Lovecraftian beings we are talking about. Many people thought that they were actually dealing with Lovecraft beings by using the Simon Necronomicon. When actually it was just Tiamat etc. from the Sumerian mythos. I have heard that the newest Necronomicons actually have information etc. from the actual Lovecraft mythos. My thought about Lovecraft’s Necronomicom is that he just stole the name for his writings. Goetia means ‘howling’ (roughly) and according to Lovecraft the Arabic name of the book Al-Azif? Also means howling. I think he heard or read about the Goetia, remember Crowley was in the news when he was writing, and just took howling for his book.
That being said I know that the Simon Necronomicon entities actually exist and can be worked with. We also know that the power puff girls can be used in chaos Magick. So, it stands to reason the Lovecraft mythos should be able to be worked with.

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