Sad to hear that. Well, what can be done?
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Huh, I thought this would be a constructive discussion but I guess I was wrong.
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Au contraire:
And this:
I used hive-mind since it was an expression you used in your OP, to discuss spirits - I was making the point that the same thing you say about them, applies to us. 
Completely different methods to what? Grimoire trad., do you mean, with the compelling under godnames etc? I ask for clarification, not snark - the difference is not always clear in text.
My answer would generally be that the same spirits tend to like the same things (Belial will often opine about your sex life, Azazel will generally like a bit of formality from most people) and this is why it’s called “unverified personal gnosis” - which states the lack of verification is there, but not as a demeaning label, just as a statement of fact.
Over time these things become generally agreed upon to be a feature of that spirit (the peer-testing approach) but that does not mean that, if they fail to act that way towards someone, we can automatically assume that person is deluded or in contact with an imposter.
There are more “tells” available in this system than are listed in the grimoire descriptions, which are all very short and often, obtuse or in code.
The descriptions are also biased by the beliefs of the time - Buné can assist in contact with deceased family members, but to the people of the grimoire era, “dead is dead” and it was considered to be “god’s will” that the veil never be lifted aside, so this would have seemed an abomination, they were supposed to lay in wait for Judgement or be in purgatory or heaven etc.
Both older and newer spiritual explorations found this not to be the case, therefore, what she does is not perceived as demonic or unnatural.
Can we just not go there?
I thought we were having a debate where we put forward points of view? If you can only do zero-sum stuff, where you prove someone wrong or they prove you wrong/exert force on you, how is that driving forward knowledge?
Isn’t that what we both care about?
It’s just defensiveness and dogma waiting to find a channel where it meets no opposition.
Look how I have worked to research seemingly different perceptions of Belial, for example, in my link above, to see how you can also be part of driving knowledge forward by bringing your own experiences with these spirits.
You are very obviously committed to doing the work, and care about people not being misled. Don’t make me ban you by adding a side of jerk to that?
Stay and dial down the “bruised pride… projections and bollocks” nonsense and act like you’re talking to a fellow human being instead of an annoyance to be crushed. You may enjoy it. 
I contend that truth in magick (which is what I am addressing) can ONLY be verified by results. Fine philosophies on how one evoked X and they agreed and you did the ritual but oops, no result, because “it was not your time” or “it’s your karma” or - the all-time fave - “It was a test” is just bullshit, no matter what.
Either a spirit says “I will not do this for you” (and either gives a reason and further conditions, or does not) or, they are bullshitting, or maybe, your own mind is.
Results are the benchmark in magick, which is substantially different to religion and mysticism, that seek ideas, not material changes. 
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Hiya OP!
Have you ever crushed a kaleidoscope? And I mean really ground it down, into shiny dust, with some of the parts only reflecting one color, but some reflecting more? When you mix that with your given blood, perception is created- the whole ‘what if our lives are superdrug-induced hallucinations we took as aliens’ debate comes to mind here! 
In the metaphor, how did you give your blood to the collection of reflective particles? How much did you give, and with what? Was the blood you gave red, or, some other color? I ask these questions because each different consciousness reading this will come to an answer, and they could have very well thought the same things in the same ways, or, not!
The universe isn’t just reflections of yourself cast among the stars, but they do exist, just like the consciousnesses of everything that ever was, could have been, or was thought of- no thing is everything, but the esoteric interpretation of gravity is sometimes thought of as intention. You move through magical reality by the same principles you do through physical reality, by creating sometimes unconscious impulses of intention and thought which structure your world(view). Simultaneous navigation can be difficult to consciously apply, but works wonders when you get through the kinks!
The entire physical advantage of humanity comes from our grouping and recording, or, the communication abilities that led us to become social animals. That’s how history, science, and magic all came to be conveyed and understood; by people telling other people what to look for, or how to see the stories of the world as it was, is, or could be! On the deepest levels of reality, this tunes the amorphous blob of perception that is ‘you’, into the frequencies of the storyteller or the story, depending on magical involvement, and that is how resonance is born. By putting other people’s blood into your kaleidoscope dust!
Grimoires, books, texts, videos- the vessel of the message doesn’t matter as much as the intention to convey it. So when it comes to occult publishing, the tide has dramatically shifted multiple times! As a cultural experience magic has been incorporated into the fabric or fringes of the societies that had it- because all of them did!
Egyptians and Tibetans are just an example of cultures that had both ‘public magic’, where ritualized practices and deeply spiritual life were the norm, and ‘private magic’, where inner levels of society had access to deeper understanding and working with the powers that founded the basis of their understanding. Where magic is normal business, there’s always a more exclusive group that has been taught to know more and do better at magic than most people ever could.
If you talked to a member of an outer circle, their configuration of reality would be structured differently to that of a member of an inner circle. If you give the outer circle guy the tools of the inner circle one, it’s unlikely to trigger a transformation, but the notes and records? Adding the directly human component is what allows us to understand each other- we talk with words and images, so it takes a lot longer to communicate by energy because we’re so unaccustomed to it!
If you’re willing to change your perception in accordance with the instructions presented to you, then, an author doesn’t need to convince you of reality to get you to subscribe to it! This can be conscious or not, but the defining feature is the willingness to defer to a source that isn’t your direct perception- if you take words above what’s in front of you, or you use words to structure what’s in front of you, you’re resonating with the message more than your natural state. There are pros to this, like copying what people find useful and making it your own, but cons can be hard to avoid when you aren’t sure if the author is overriding you- when in doubt, tear a page out!
Using records to get to things that might be useful is just ‘pathworking’, which usually only amounts to following in the footsteps of. In texts from restrictive or dangerous times to be a magician, they had to evolve to survive; so they’re a cut above when it comes to making sure readers don’t find and murder them, and sometimes that means they’re more predatory and pre-emptive with the magic lacing their surface stuff. It can be hard to get out of the grasp of an old archmage!
My point OP is that it isn’t all expectation or subjectivity, but that the all in the first place is influenced heavily not only by expectation and subjectivity, but experience and thought, too- you can resonate or trip in and out of entire universes of understanding, but controlled effort makes the most difference. If you’re in control, rather than being controlled, and consciously employing a text because it works for you, you’re in a better configuration than someone who is being controlled into believing the text is reality itself. The difference is small but it can make a lifetime in progress terms. The map is not the territory!
AKA- unless you’re trying to deliberately peel back from recorded instances of a being, similarities can be anything from beings with the same name, to different personalities of the same being, to ghosts, etc. Unless there’s direct verification, there’s no reason to assume anyone is talking to the same thing!
The only way to expand or reconfigure your hologram is to try.
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This part I agree but is magick just getting some material things done? Isn’t evolution/Ascension, getting rid of weakness also a big part of magick.
Is it? can’t one argue that Prayer in Christianity or Dua in Islam also is for material change? They may not have the facility of directly contacting with the medium of changes aka spirits like mages do but many times spirits also lies and says they can do the work but fails. Yoga, energy work doesn’t directly change the material world but makes one so fit and sharp physically and mentally that they may function at their prime in the material world, and that is largely to make changes in the material world. SO 
Also, knowing that it is Belial to go for Legal problems not Bune is also knowing some objective truth. ( Lol, this reminds me of Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson’s famous or rather infamous discussion about the nature of truth )
U experienced infusion with Raphael, wouldn’t it mattered if it was turned out to be some nasty importer and messed up your energy body while infusing??!!
ThAt’s all I am saying 
. Just threw some ideas just to further the discussion. The topic is good.
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Well, the only comment I really want to make is this:
That is a result, it’s either yes or no, in that it either happens, or does not. Weakness is a cause of certain effects - when the effects stop happening, you know you have eradicated the cause.
You have changed your reality.
So, you will know if you got your result, or just a load of waffle.
For example, if you want to get rid of some of your weaknesses, especially within white-light paradigms that lean more mystical, you can do things and you will get contact with spirits, or some other higher forces, and they’ll spin you a fine-sounding line like:
“all is one, but there are many voices, the universe exists to experience life, and yet does not exist without the observer… seek within, your power is greater than you think… what you call weaknesses are the pain within you seeking healing, remember to accept All That Is… use wisdom, trust your heart, but remember you are not your emotions, they merely serve you… even bad things that happen in life usually serve some purpose”
… all of which some spirits will fob you off with, if you are willing to tolerate that.
And nothing will change while you’re chasing down those blind alleys. 
If you have one spirit that will give you hours of that and tell you that you’re the King of Mars, chosen one to hold the universe’s gnoses, or whatever, and a second spirit who calls you a lazy useless cunt to your face, but who will manifest a free gym membership, or an experience that permanently scares you from ever touching another cigarette or burger, via rapid routes that you can use right away, choose the second guy, because he’s the one who can AND DOES make your life better. 
Or, you (I mean hypothetical strength-seeker) can sit and navel-gaze, and get further away from personal emobodied power in this, OUR realm, becaue you are playing the human game by the rules of the spiritual realities. I honestly saw that happen all the time in my own white-light days and it’s such a dangerous trap to fall into. 
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Because their both right. For example alot of people could be working with a said deity…but then some could be working with an impostor. I think the terms defining what is what are not complex enough.
The problem here is the syndrome bestowed is the same the 3 Religions encounter frequently… Meaning they all of a sudden have a One True Prophet who “speaks for GOD” for the chosen deity…who by the way is the only one who can be the only “One True God/Satan/Deity” and all others are false.
This is why I say these things. Do I think yours is? No. I just see it as a magickal act of an expression of Spirit where you are one of many spirit cults out there looking for followers and energy…not too much different than a Celebrity or politician who wants to get recognized and a foothold up to the next level.
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Just like 1 original book can be reprinted many times and have many copies of itself in all kinds of different areas. 1 Demon can multiply itself in many directions simultaneously. Kind of like 1 octopus spreading his tentacles and each tentacle touching a different object.
I can resonate with this
with me, Lilith is tough love, kind of figure to bring the problem I am seeking to solve to light so I can solve it. Some people may have different experiences, and frankly that is what makes OUR experiences interesting and unique. Think of how boring it would be to have the same relationship with an entity that someone else has.
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Overall this is an interesting ‘discussion’
good read
I am confused with what you’re saying here. Could you elaborate?
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That “detach from everything, everything is true and equally valid, don’t resist, just go with the flow” mindset of the white-light world, in general.
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So don’t fall into that trap of a mindset.
So just branch your own path, stay connected, take things with a grain of salt.
Would be the better mindset to follow?
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That’s the way I flow, Joe. 
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Eyy
Insert sick baa dum tisss
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But on a serious note. Magic/k to me is very different for each individual. What might be good and work for one might not necessarily work for another.
I think this could easily apply to how entities work and interact differently will each individual. They would act in a way that would be beneficial to that individual.
That’s why I enjoy Dragon Magic so much. It is very much a personal/individual experience. Not one person experiences it exactly the same way.
But that’s just my POV, take it how ever you like. 
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Agreed
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Yes, the different methods I was alluding to were grimoire trad methods or those akin to that since grimoire magic has roots in Graeco-Egyptian magic.
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If you want to win people over into working with those, post your results, with enough info that people can see the method you used and what actual and materially verifiable result you got.
We have two whole topics where people share successes: Member's Successes & Thanking Spirits - Do It Here! & The BALG repository of fantastical success stories with Magick as a model for how that works.
“You shouldn’t do X because you’re all foolish Y” will only get clicks from people looking for drama, and will fall away fast, especially if a fight breaks out on that topic and it gets locked.
“I manifested a new house/$5m dollars/the perfect wife using time-tested methods” will get ongoing clicks, including via Google.
If you developed or pieced together new things that take the methods closer back to the GE origins that would also be of interest to read, since a lot of people are repelled by the Christian framework inherent in grimoire trad.
Most people are more loss-averse and will strive more not to suffer loss than they will work to gain new positive things, so usually in everyday life, stick works better than carrot, but this forum (like most of the internet) is somewhat outside that, because people join looking for solutions, whether to major life problems, increasing their existing knowledge, or just for company and social interaction from likeminded people.
Giving people what works instead of berating them for what you believe does not is therefore the most effective way to get your ideas welcomed into other people’s minds. 
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Welp, better a lecture than a banhammer (again), I suppose.
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I asked Belial why he appeared differently based on which methods I used to call him, and if it was the same spirit that was coming through. He said something along the lines of yes its all him, just different masks for different occasions.
So I’m guessing “my” demons are the same as “yours” just a different face.
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