Lucifer and Yaweh are Equals

Pretty much or even if he wasn’t an original god but created as a thoughtform after all these years and this much worship and solid concepts and energy given to him he would have reached critical mass and evolved a long time ago. Though I’m sure there is a simple way to solve this. Someone that has the time on their hands and no overly biased point of view and good anounts of experience should evoke him and see what happens.

Hell maybe I will do it after some work with the Roman gods. Everyone treats him like some big boogey man but I wonder how much is truly justified and how much is just because crazy followers do stupid shit. It’s like in politics. Political leader x is pretty decent person doing his best to do his job but x amount of lunatics that believe in some extreme view of his ideology do psycho shit and all of a sudden leader x is an evil bastard that wants to kill puppies or something.

Only way to really be sure in some things is personal experience.

You’re thinking on my level now. For me, step one of this was walking into a church, having people pray for me, and seeing if I could snatch the energy and boost spells with it. You would think surely their god would stop me seeing as how I’m invading his territory.

But nope. Lets me off scott free. It feeds into the bigger idea that all any god wants is for people to ascend.

I’m not entirely sure how I’m supposed to evoke him or Jesus though. What exactly am I supposed to be drawing on?

1 Like

Well… see with Jesus I don’t see him actually being connected with this god but more in my belief he was a magician, a very powerful one, and being a magical celebrity that preached certain things his words and teachings were misappropriated for propaganda purposes and lost a lot of original meaning. That is my personal view and understanding there. As for evocation of Yaweh that really depends on what style and path of magick you work with and the techniques you use. Be easier to advise if I had a bit more understanding of your methodology. I go very heavily on Hermetic approaches specifically Franz Bardon’s methods and teachings along with mixed eastern perspectives and chaos magick for the most part.

You damn near answered your own question.

I combine Esoteric Buddhism with western things like casting a circle and working with 4 elements(as opposed to 6). If an evocation calls for working with a deity of a different culture, I might try to integrate details from that culture’s rituals. it’s slightly like chaos magic in that regard.

2 Likes

Alright. Well what I would do is find if there are any specific sigils already associated with Yaweh if not then immerse yourself in the mentality of his sphere as you understand it and create a sigil through preferred methods. This sigil you would charge with basic vital energy to awaken it and then if you are familiar with Bardon’s methods from his first two books find the mental center of it and the realm it connects to and draw upon that to create the atmosphere needed for evocation. From there it follows the same format as any other.

Well that’s funny :wink:

1 Like

Taste the darkness this winter with our new Chocolate Lucifer drink. He’s magically delicious.

2 Likes

Agree.
By engaging to this mindset you automatically accept that there is something greater than you and the gods and demons you work with. Greater than the universal forces. You accept that you will always be inferior. And you going against that greater power. It’s only normal eventually to turn back where you came from. Sounds “good” for the oppressed humans of the Middle Ages who wished to rebel against all that, but not for the people of our times. I work with demons but I’m long gone from JCI religions.

4 Likes

You NEED to stop telling ME what I NEED to do.
Im fine not fucking with your angels and pretending your thoughtform god isnt what it is. Prostheletize to some other chump who follows like a sheeple. Its NOT going to be ME!!!
I SEE what youre doing.

I work with a wide variety of things. I don’t know why you specified angels. Also, could you explain why you think it’s a thought-form? That’s the thing I’m trying to figure out.

1 Like

I have moved this to the White Magick/RHP category where discussion of religion is somewhat more tolerable.

I request people keep rebuttals courteous in line with forum rules and preferably based on personal experiences with these concepts and the cultures they engender, or texts regarding the religion, rather than insults towards OP personally.

Bold claims like the title invite debate and even rebuttals, but they’re hard to take seriously when they’re just mud-slinging.

Cheers! :+1:

4 Likes

Nope.

Look, had you started this with, “I believe, personally that Lucifer may be blah blah blah,” I wouldve just scrolled on. But you state it as a definite. I am merged with the Prince, and I will tell you that he is NOT the JCI god of the bible-grimoire. As for Thoughtform-god that appeared appx 2K years ago to suddenly dominate and oppress humankind along with its priests and so called holy book of absolutes…I recommend you connect the dots.
So…I dont NEED to do jack shit. Im a grown woman who works with real gods and until my Prince and merger says, “hey…um…I have a wee confession to make…although Ive been honest with you for fifteen years straight about everything else…Im actually the murderous, oppressive, pedophelic, raping god of the Abrahamic lineage. I was just out strolling one day and started trolling this old asshole who treated his wife like shit, but he took me seriously…what can I say?” Im going to go right on believing that he is who he says he is, now, and throughout history.
There.

4 Likes

Yaweh would have been around as early as 6000 years ago depending on the source. Also, I didn’t mean equal as in literally the same deity. I meant as in status and level of power. Thought I should make that clear.

3 Likes

Yahweh and Jesus are two different entities, just saying (because of that thing of “2000y”)…

Also, some sources date from 6k years ago or more, as @DemonMonk says.

At least, but not less important, Lucifer and Satan are completely different entities too. Satan is not more (for bible and Torah) than the “adversary”, “rival”, and it’s not attributed to Lucifer at all… Instead, Satan (the bible concept, or the “Torah” one) comes from Persian’s beliefs. It was adapted from there, and it’s not related to Lucifer but to an “adversary of humanity” (not until apocalypse or the later church reviews that are only “Christianism propaganda”).

LaVey works on another concept of Satan, but that isn’t in discussion here. But even LaVey’s one isn’t Lucifer.

That said I believe you, @Kulina8, misunderstood all the “comparison” thing. Also, I believe that “comparison” is completely out of purpose since Lucifer isn’t the adversary but Satan is (again, bible concept, not mine). So, in that case, maybe the best “Ying” for “Yahweh Yang” side is Satan (again, in your comparison).

Lucifer is only a good being that was exhorted from heaven just because he was too good. All the fonts say (including Bible) that Lucifer was an angel of pure light, closest to the Yahweh (in the Torah mentioned as the creator of all), closer than Metatron! And other angels wanted to be more like him, so Yahweh exhorted him from heaven.

I’m using this Torah passage just to mention that not even the original text quotes Lucifer as a bad being.

Also, Apocalypse texts mention Lucifer as Satan, but that is on Church. In Torah, the inferno doesn’t exist. Satan isn’t a “being” but is more like every little thing that can detract people from “Yahweh path”.

So don’t need to be so upset. Lucifer is a great guy and even the Jews have no reason to doubt it. The great “sin” of him is to be too good. And even the Torah says that.

What church actually says about Lucifer is only propaganda. And all religions have that. Just let they run along with this. Christians aren’t the majority at all…

4 Likes

True,
they only have different depictions, mostly to scare the sheep.

2 Likes

Though I log in most of the time just to read your post, I have to disagree with you on this regard. Don’t know when you use the term ‘servitor- thought forms’ if you mean to say thoughts forms only created by collective humans through out our history or any living entity below casual realm- under the domain of mental realm? If the first then have to disagree. Laws of nature come first and then based on that human , or other form of life comes. Not the other way around.

Yes, he does. Everything specific/particular has. The only reason why most people don’t have or know his yantra is because most don’t know how to properly bracket/define him.

Yaweh can be contacted and one have him always on one’s side as a guide and loving companion, just like any other demon or spirit. In my tradition countless mystics from the devotional path had achieved that feat. The only thing is those were done through love and personal devotion/relationship, the spiritual path propagated by himself. Don’t know if it is possible to have him like that through forceful evocation.

1 Like

Well actually servitor and thoughtforms especially collective ones have nothing so much to do with humans specifically as natural laws of how energy and thought congregate and bind together. When a magician intentionally does this he speeds the natural process empowering thought and energy to his will to form. Yet when you have many gods and beings their origin is as sentient manifestations of powers and ideas many of human origin or influence that gave a specific force and being a defined role while others existed formed by other beings or their own spontaneous evolution where you get really ancient ones with many many names. Servitor thoughtform analogies serve to help illustrate the concept. Even flesh and blood beings came from a similar process with organic slop that in time sorted and defined itself and then in many cases was defined intentionally or incidentally by other forces. Such as how dogs are a result of man’s influence upon wolves. So more unshaped raw beings while still sentient were in time changed to their modern incarnationd shaped by those who feed them and view them and dealt with them.

1 Like

Good topic!! I just watched a video by the Order of the Cresent Moon and it opened my mind.

Here Yaweh was shown in a different light, like he actually gives a damn about humans and nature. He even referred to humans as Gods. After studying Magick, I learnt that both Lucifer and Satan have always had our backs. Satan is definitely a Lord in this Universe like sources have pointed out and Lucifer enlightens us.

The funny thing is if we combine the RHP and the LHP couldn’t our Magick be more effective? Heck by the looks of it Satan and Yaweh seem to just have a rivalry and it was asshole humans who destroyed the old ways and defaced our Gods. Perhaps these days we are just searching for an enemy.

1 Like

Correct. Yaweh was a Storm god of the Canaanites, so it really is no more a thoughtform then Baal, considering Baal was worshiped by the same people.

Sort of. They falsely attributed the characteristics of El to his creation, Yaweh. What resulted is probably more like an egregore than a thoughtform, though.

Exactly. This is probably the biggest hang-up for magickians that I see on a regular basis. So many people are denying themselves tools in their kit because of a mistaken association between Yaweh and YHVH. The most common instance of this I see (regularly) is people wanting to modify the LBRP because they do not feel comfortable saying what they think are death cult associations. In the process of rejection, they miss so much that whatever version they come out with tends to be a weak imitation of the original, at best.

But saying the Canaanite Yaweh is the other polarity to the Lucifer is like saying Poseidon is the opposite polarity of Prometheus. In terms of historic references, it does not work.

But at the same time saying the egregore that resulted later is the polar opposite does not really work either, because they are only really ever compared by JCI people and similar. In other words, the reputations of the two are only in opposition because of the associations of the ‘faithful’. This is an ephemeral polarity at best.

This is ultimately, IMO, a result of the schism in Judaism after their captivity by the Babylonians. The rabbis went a little crazy during this time,and that infection spread. The Talmud is the result of this mental disease, and unfortunately continues to leave it’s shit stain to this day.

3 Likes