Is Poverty a "Sin"?

General Discussion
41

[quote=“CyberLord, post:35, topic:22603”]
If accountability is:

showing up to work everyday
paying my bills
paying my rent
looking out for my roommates
paying my taxes
staying out of trouble and no criminal record still
doing my job right and properly

And I still ended up losing my job and becoming homeless.

Yeah, I had that happen before. That’s the kind of thing I’m talking about when I say event. It blows. It also has the healthy effect of shattering some very unhealthy illusions namely that the world is fair or even slightly makes sense. Accountability is nothing more than acknowledging that choices have been made.

It’s not easy, I know. When I was working and broke as fuck at one point my food budget was $50/week, out of a $200 weekly paycheck from my minimum wage job that was paying $7/hr, but never gave full time hours because that would mean they would have to give you benefits. With the rest I had to keep the heat on and the rent paid. That was fun, lol. At least you had food stamps. I did not, but I was paying taxes to give others food stamps because I was apparently rolling in money. Right…

Well no shit, but what does fair even mean in an objective context? It is as about as relevent to the human condition as morality. It is a made up, ephemeral idea. I am talking about the objective context of choices; there is no judgement attached to my presentation.

Lol, if I was you can bet your ass that no more kids would be getting hit with drone strikes, there would be no mention of a wall, and Hillary Clinton would have been indicted by now. I would also be attacking corrupt corporatists and using the proceeds to fix the homelessness and educational failures in America. Then I would promptly be assassinated, lol. The only person who can do what Trump does is Trump; the same goes for everyone else, too. I think you are projecting you own polarization on me, but I choose not to be offended.

That sounds an awful lot like a pity party to me, and only victims throw pity parties. I refuse to be a victim, which may be why we are not agreeing. Can you honestly tell me that any of that stuff you mentioned has any greater bearing on your actions tomorrow regarding the course you make for yourself in life than you do? If those things mold your present and future more than your own hand then how can you possibly believe in magick? Christ, there is a member here who had a manifestation that wound up on the national news. You want to see change? Change it. But I promise you that approaching the situation with the perspective you are presenting is not going to work. Things will change, make no mistake, but you probably will not like those changes. But that would be your choice. Like I keep trying to explain, just because you do not like your options does not mean they are not options.

3 Likes
42

Okay, this is going from an abstract question into some really personal stuff.

Will anything useful come out of that?

At what point is this just people defending whatever belief system because it’s no longer about ideas, it’s about personal experience?

3 Likes
44

In my opinion, poverty is not a sin. A sin is a religious term and I’m not religious. Some people are rich and some people are poor. One is not better than the other, though in this world there is more freedom of choice when one is rich.

That being said, I have a feeling that greed is more of a “sin” than poverty. i’m not sure if @Lady_Eva remembers, but a few years ago, when I was in dire straits and homeless, she contacted a couple of spirits on my behalf, including Odin, and they gave very similar advice: to regain my prosperity, I was to perform a couple of acts of charity and offering. Apparently, in a previous incarnation, I was a rich man, but very greedy, and mean, and some “higher power” decided to slap me down for it. Now, from what I gathered from a divination, this higher power was not “God,” but an entity that I had offended. I had committed a sin, in the eyes of this being. I think part of it was also that I had neglected my spiritual work, because I have found as I commit more and more to my Ascent, my prosperity is increasing, though I do still live under the poverty line in my country.

7 Likes
45

I tried to answer the OP, but apparently I tickled some nerves. Now it seems I am being assailed by the defenders of poverty. Whether it is a sin or not seems irrelevant at this point. How could it be? Something that is not your fault could not possibly be a sin, right?

2 Likes
46

IMO with all the education that is out there and the ability to start your own business there should be no reason why anyone should be poor or remain in poverty. The only legitimate reasons that I can see for being poor or impoverished is because the persons situation is such that they can not access the education or information to learn to start there own business or they can’t remove themselves from the area that they live in to get such education and information. Then you have those who where making a “statement” like Gandhi and the like. So is being poor or in poverty a sin, I have 2 answers. 1.No, if you have no possibility of getting out of the the situations that I listed. 2. Yes, if you have access to the education and information to remove yourself from that situation and choose not to utilize it. IMO.

2 Likes
47

People can keep themselves in spiritual poverty as well. always meaning to read those texts or take that meditation retreat, always meaning to start appreciating life in the moment instead of living for the weekend… or even material poverty that’s NOT about money, through overeating, lack of exercise, all the daily aches and pains that brings people.

I think poverty defined as refusing to live when you have the option to do so is probably a sin.

And one I personally spent a lot of time immersed in, for various reasons…

Happily, no more though! :smiley:

I think we only differ on where we draw that line.

3 Likes
48

But why is it a sin? What is sinful about being impoverished? Sin being the operative word here. Something being a sin is indicative of a definitive right way/wrong way to live. Poverty is an economic status. I do not see how one translates to another, so I cannot find poverty a sin. There is really no “right” way to live. If you can even manage the “live” part then you are miles ahead of many millionaires out there, I’m sure. If you are not in poverty, but find no life in your life, then is that not a greater “sin”?

49

I’m guilty of that be it laziness or procrastination. It something I’m breaking myself out of.

2 Likes
50

The ancient Egyptian judgement for the dead, weighing the heart against the feather of Ma’at. amd if the heart was heavy from doing what it knew to be wrong, that personality would be devoured forever… that’s probably closer to the kinds of sin (not really my fave word) that we’re talking about here?

4 Likes
51

I have not forgotten you @DefectiveSoul … I will give you an explanation tonight, and I am sorry that it was not completed in a timely manner pleasing to the customer :slight_smile:
I can say I saw anything necessarily bad.

2 Likes
52

:slight_smile: thanks

o.O

53

You need a book called The Now Habit by Neil Fiore (which is NOT about “just do it! NOW!!” - or anything simplistic and lame!!) - I had tears rolling down my face the first time I read it.

You will NEVER think of yourself in those terms again if you can get hold of a copy, you don’t even need to read the whole book, just the first few chapters.

And I can tell you something, I know lazy, and you’re not it, but that’s irrelevant, please try and get that book, it will detox your brain and give you back something wonderful. :+1:

2 Likes
54

Defending @Woodsman81, I see what you’re getting at, there are choices and consequences, even if they’re not apparent to the observer, and not trying anything to better your condition is a choice.
I think the infuriating thing is one, some people think a poor person is a joke or punching bag.
Two, is the timing sense, that you as a poor person can see others make continual bad choices with little or no consequence, while the poor person seems to be hounded for a bad choice for decades.
Oh well. I think it is still a sin due to where it makes poor people go.

3 Likes
55

Life is a coin toss. There’s no guarantee (outside of Magick) that a person will achieve their goals. Not everyone is going to be the “big CEO” or multi million /billionare. You can have a 100 people work there backsides off and still a very small percentage will achieve that goal “life is not fair”. And as far as happiness that depends on the person and what is in their souls if they have one. But to have access to a way to remove yourself from that situation and not use it regardless of the outcome (coin toss) and then turn around and blame someone else for your problems because you gave up on yourself is sinful.

3 Likes
56

Thanks I’ll look for it.

3 Likes
57

This is the book I mean if anyone’s curious, it’s amazing stuff.

5 Likes
58

Exactly. It comes down to how you define sin. I never did agree with the Egyptian perspective on this. It depends on the personal values of the individual.

Devil’s advocate here on my part when I wrote this. To answer my own question, I would still say no, it is not a sin. I can honestly say I have done things I knew were not right to achieve an end that I valued more than my integrity. Maybe it is a sin. I am apathetic to the analysis because I value actualization of my will higher then personal integrity. To me, I feel integrity is a by product of of social mirror, and would not exist in a “boy raised by wolves” type scenario. Without other humans to interact with I question whether a person would ever feel that something they do is wrong in the context we perceive it.

I don’t think we are capable of sinning is what I guess I am trying to say.

3 Likes
59

What is “sin”? Are you talking about the fear mongering word that religion uses to control the masses? How does the “word” correlate with the subject at hand. To remove the word from the subject for a moment and it might (hopefully) put everyone’s opinions into perspective.

3 Likes
60

Bingo. We have a winner, lol.

Not exactly what I mean. I am saying that if you are in poverty, and you have a consistent pattern of behavior, to continue that pattern leads to stagnation. It will do nothing to alleviate poverty, but doing nothing (or repeating previous actions) is a choice. Again, no judgement one way or the other.

Absolutely. There are a whole mess of elitist jackasses out there that don’t realize they themselves are one disaster away from sharing the same lot in life as those they look down upon.

Which is at the root of why comparing ourselves to others is one of the most toxic things we can do to ourselves, emotionally and psychologically.

With all the knowledge and resources we have at our disposal poverty should be considered a shame, not a sin, and definitely should be viewed as a symptom of greater woes.

4 Likes
61

Isn’t Sin the god of the moon in Mesopotamian mythology.

2 Likes