Is Poverty a "Sin"?

A friend of mine and I were having a discussion. He asked me, Is Poverty a sin? He said, Yes. I said no.

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I’d suggest remaining stupid and not learning is a sin but seems to be rewarded by society as some kind of virtue.

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What constitutes sin?

Surely not something that may not be in your control such as poverty or homosexuality?

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Some people who believe in Karma believe that you pay for what you did in your past life. So if in your past life, you were cruel, you might become Poor in this one as a Result of Karma.

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What’s the working definition of sin here, though?

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Exactly my question lol. What constitutes sin for the purposes of this thread

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Hey poor people guess what - you not only have to do without, we’ll blame you for it as well! :+1:

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For the purposes of this thread, the definition of sin is disobeying Yahweh’s (God’s) laws.

Some of these TV ministers distort the Bible and use it to blame the poor, while fleecing them with “tithes and offerings” to pay fior their rich lifestyle.

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I’ve found napoleon hill’s outwitting the devil has good insights on poverty. Also a good read in general along with the rest of his works.

"Q. Is that why a few people are wealthy while the majority of people are poor?
A. That is exactly the reason. Poverty, like physical illness, is a contagious disease. You find it always among the drifters, never among those who know what they want and are determined to get just that. It may mean something to you when call your attention to the fact that the non-drifters, whom I do not con-
trol, and those who possess most of the wealth of the world, happen to be the same people.

Q. I have always understood that money was the root of all evil, that the poor and the meek would inherit heaven, while the wealthy would pass into your hands. What have you to say of that claim?
A. Men who know how to get the material things of life generally know how to keep out of the hands of the Devil as well. The ability to acquire things is contagious. Drifters acquire nothing except that which no one else wants. If more people had definite aims and stronger desires for material and spiritual riches, I would have fewer victims."

Also good a good passage

"Q Your Majesty will please pardon my rudeness, but I would not be able to look myself in the face again ifI did not tell you, here and now, that you are the damnedest fiend ever to be turned loose on innocent people.
I always had the wrong conception of you. I thought you were kind enough to let people alone while they were living, that you merely tortured their souls after death. Now I learn, from your own brazen confession, that you destroy their right to freedom of thought and cause them to go through a living
hell on earth. What do you have to say to that?

A I get what I want by exercising self-control. It is not
so good for my own business, but I suggest you emulate me instead of criticizing me. You call yourself a thinker, and you are. Otherwise you would never have forced this interview on me. But you will never be the sort of thinker that frightens me unless you gain and exercise greater control over your own emotions."

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It would seem that the universe would have left a loophole. For if it is Karmic backlash from a previous life that sets someone up for a life of “sin” (poverty or gayness, or whatever) in this one, then the idea of a law of Karma must be perpetual. This would leave a vicious cycle of endless Karmic Punishment to one person, getting piled up and piled up, and worse and worse, as the more they would live their life of “sin”, the more they would be punished Karmically.

Instead, the universe gives a Cosmic Solution to their plight. If they reach out to the number of physical or mundane solutions that are available, but limited on a level as humans are concerned, then they should give up ever trying to escape. I would. I have always tried to chase after something I’ve wanted badly enough. If I fail, sometimes I’ve given up, but I pursue it again at another time. Or I find a different solution to a problem. Or just tackle something totally different to take my mind off of my limitations.

The Cosmic Solution I’m guessing is our ability to study a non-physical solution and realize that if we try, we can manipulate our reality to our liking. I’ve not perfected this for myself yet, but I’m working on it. But if everything we’re taught in magick is true and we’re all here to make changes in our life that we’re not happy with (otherwise why are you studying magick?), then there must be some way to successfully change our Karma. Do we over-ride bad Karma then if we manipulate the Mundane to our liking? Is that a sin that we didn’t live through our Karma in this life and will be punished yet further in the next existence?

I want to think that we aren’t punished for a previous life’s sins or wrongs. Karmic backlash must happen within a person’s lifetime for them to experience rather than take it out of context so no one knows what then heck they’re being punished for in this life. The universe may be testing people rather. A life with poverty or homelessness, or some other’s sin can be tackled in this life through magick if the person is unhappy with their life. I also say as a homosexual that sin is in the eyes of the beholder. One person’s sin, is another’s gift or joy. Not that anyone would be joyful in poverty, but maybe find contentment?

I had to find contentment after having 2 weight loss surgeries. So vanity led me to have a 3rd until it worked. Then I couldn’t live with the saggy skin, so I chose multiple reconstructive surgeries. I sinned with vanity, even though my doctor had it in his head that I would have died from heart failure or diabetes if I hadn’t lost weight. I was thinking of an opportunity to look and feel attractive for the first time in my gay life. I wanted the porn body. I haven’t been able to achieve that just yet. But if I find the right spell, I’ll let you know!

My sin of homosexuality drove me to want to feel normal in a very judgemental community. I was all about gay sex, and wanted to experience what looked like so much hot fun to me. I was offered electro-shock therapy in Christian counsel as the only solution. They said I would never lose my desire for same sex relation, but I could learn to suppress the urges with electric shock therapy. Hmmm??? Really??? That’s the solution??? I think I’ll accept my sinful life as a gay man, and now get off of this tangent that I’m on.

My point is, I’m not a sinner in my own eyes. It took me a long time to accept who I was and feel comfortable expressing myself in my own identity and being able to do it and not be ashamed of it in public. I worked for the Roman Catholic Church for over 20 years and could never have considered posting a picture of my boyfriend and I on social media.
I left my job in the church a little over a year ago to open my own Metaphysical shop. Something I have passion for . It allowed me to no longer feel spiritual oppression and allowed me to feel comfortable expressing myself as me. For real, not the mask I wanted everyone to see.

I’m tackling it. I’m not perfect, but I’m trying. I’m learning magick to help me with areas of my life that I feel for me warrant change, and to help other people through my magick. I have a long way to go, but I will keep trying. Hopefully, I won’t have more Karmic Backlash in the next existences for fighting against what was dished out to me here against my current knowledge. I think that’s why it’s good idea to learn as much as we can spiritually and aim for high spiritual ascent in this life, so we don’t have to relive certain things over. Probably a good idea to perhaps include some of ‘helping others less fortunate’ in life to perhaps counteract Karma. No matter what circumstances you find your life in, maybe reach out to someone with still less than we may have. Even if the difference is just pennies, or being kind, or lending a hand in someway? Maybe I’m totally off-base. Just my two cents. But as with many things, I ramble. Sorry!!!

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Great post there mate if I may say so! :+1:

Yes, and by methods as simple as Law of Attraction, and positive thinking, they all start shifting reality to be more favourable to the person reaching out with faith for what they want…

But, faith in what?

Really, just a better future for themselves, however they comceptualise it. :smiley:

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Poverty is a not a sin because sins are a made up concept. Poverty is a choice, and as counter intuitive as this sounds, sometimes it is the healthier choice.

I don’t know if choice is the right word in all circumstances?

It’s definitely an effect, created by distinct causes, but not all people have the physical, psychological, and emotional faculties to start changing the causes that lead to poverty.

People born into poverty will often have it as their set-point, something the book Psycho-Cybernetics goes into in great details - that’s not a conscious choice at all, but it is an effect of things the person’s set-point causes.

There’s also a geographic element, if you live in an area that saw its main industry, like a shipyard or a manufacturing plant get closed down, your thriving little business may go down with it - you didn’t yourself cause poverty, you just didn’t cause resilience, and most people are not going to be able to cause that while also dealing with the pressures of everyday life.

Someone can be fucked by their geography, as well - easy to be the “inspiring” disabled entrepreneur in some countries, especially with in-work benefits to support expenses, but much harder in others, especially if you’re being victimised through superstition or sheer lawlessness.

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The Law of karma is not how westerners think of it,
It was corrupted by abrahamic powers, mainly zionist jews and the church through the british!!

It’s not even Kar-ma but karm!
Westerners add ‘a’ to almost everything hindu!
ArjunA
BhishmA
KarmA
DharmA.

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We were marking your homework! :+1:

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As far as karma goes, remember its a two way street.
As far as poverty goes:
Yes its a sin…because what we poor people have to do for basic survival needs.
No, not every person who is poor is uneducated.
No, the poor are not worthless.

The real sin is how the poor are treated, IMO.

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:joy_cat:

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You get really mixed messages on poverty from the world religions. “The poor will always be with us”, “we have a responsibility to care for the widows and the orphans”, etc. We are meant to have compassion for their state, and their humility helps them follow Big 3 Religions’ tenets. We have monks and mystics that choose a life of voluntary poverty to achieve purity and break free of addictions. We honor the poor man who sneakily gives just a little out of compassion over the rich showman who wants everyone to see his offering. And even the traditionalists in the Big 3 condemn Prosperity Gospels as a new heresy because their God never said he wanted them to be rich or happy. He said it is hard to follow him. (It’s becoming obvious that I was raised in a church, huh). So how could poverty be viewed as a sin in itself? Maybe your actions in response to poverty could be “sins” in a Big 3 sense, but not poverty itself, as it is something many are simply born into.

Granted, they do also mention someone asking “What sin did this man commit that he would be born blind”, so Karma could play into it, but I agree that feels like an eternal trap of accumulating Karma. Especially since social mobility is quickly becoming more and more difficult to achieve in many countries.

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It practically doesn’t even exists!!
It’s a sweet lie. Like jesus loves you!!!

It’s pretty common thing to say here among my generation, that the worst sin is to be poor, because even god doesn’t help the poor.

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Or the sin might be in hiring managers that waste time continually by saying no to the poor-to-be, because they know the poor-to-be are disposable resources, right? All the poor are the same? Nobody chooses to be poor.

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