I'll give you the gift after you give me what I want

Would you bargain with a Demon with this sort of attitude;

I’ll give you the gift after you give me what I want

I mean it shows you have balls and professionalism doesn’t it? It’s not being negative but rather it’s making a deal. What do you think?


It’s perfectly fine, I do that quite often. :+1:

It helps to be businesslike.


I wouldn’t do it personally, I’d rather say : “I need help with this, could you help me?” And if they ask for an offering afterwards, I’ll give it to them, depending on what it is


They are not pissed off at being made to make a deal on your terms?

What I did in the past was e.g. here here is some chocolate (or whatever) for you hope you like it, That was done as a way to placate.

Would you say only bring gifts when they make the actual demands during conversation as part of building the relationship?

In turn, I really wouldn’t recommend this attitude if you want success.

You may be a bit uncomfortable commanding spirits, but it really helps the magick to work. Commanding is not to be done rudely, or anything like that, but it is giving a request and simply knowing they will bring you what you want, and speaking to them like you have the right to speak with them.

That’s going to give you the best success.


I don’t command, it’s rude, I grow some balls and summon the spirit then ask respectfully


I used to feel the same way until I used one of the 72 Names of the Shem HaMephorash to gain insight into it. Like I said, don’t do it rudely, but rather it’s similar to just asking with full faith.


Same here especially if it is “someone” nes. It’s just like in Mundane life I do pay someone I don’t know and trust before services rendered.

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Pretty much the same approach I use for most spirits. There are some I will not (mainly my dead) but for most, I have yet to had a problem with that approach



Yup, especially ones I knew in life. I give offerings before and after the working with them. Pretty much only with them


I am the same way since they are family still.

Agreed. It also helps to not look like a weakling or a pushover, or reliant on charity - because you’re simply none of these things - this is giving your power away and being inauthentic, and that’s always going to lead to problems.

It does depend on the entity and your relationship, but being slightly formal and professional goes a very long way, imo.


I used to think, that, and in some cases that’s still going to be true, because it depends what you mean by it - there are some that stand there and literally command you to command them… it happened to EA, and it happened to me and few others I think…

it’s not about barking orders, it’s about getting in the right headspace and having the confidence to direct the energy correctly.
In qigong the way they put it is, to KNOW that it’s flowing right - not ask, hope or believe: know. This is how to have command. This is mastery. And shit just works.

So, I think there’s more of an issue with the English language being inadequate and having too many filtered meanings here more than anything.


I’m in total agreement!


I think @DarkestKnight said it nicely in this post from him, as he details Koetting’s experience on the matter, which @Mulberry mentioned:


I still don’t agree that they expect to be commanded with authority, @DarkestKnight is a ceremonial magician if I’m not mistaken, which is a type of Magick I never did and never will do, I use enns or prayer, it’s how I called many Infernals, including Satan :smiley:


Well man do you I guess…if you’re satisfied with the results your getting then stick with the philosophy and practice you’ve got.

I’m curious though what you dislike about ceremonial magick. When practiced properly it’s safe and highly effective.

Ok I’m curious bro I’ll share something that happened a few weeks ago. During an evocation of Duke Agares the spirit showed up and immediately left the triangle and started coming towards me, then it started to go around my circle on my sides…now what would you do?..

I’m going to tell you what I did. I told him “No” in clear and certain terms. I then directed him to be seated in the triangle. He complied, I wasn’t asking him I was telling him.

What could have happened if I didn’t have the balls to direct the spirit? Do you understand what I’m saying?


I dislike the binding, now people can practice without the intent to bind, but if you intend to subjugate and bind then no


That’s fine, I still think it’s better not to use a triangle at all, as spirits may interpret it as disrespect

Only if a spirit gets out of line FIRST, then you have the right to tell them no and stand your ground