Franz Bardon Step 8 and The Practice of Magical Evocation

General Discussion
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Who has experience in the Bardon system, or Know how to answer my questions

1-) It is true that if I can not ennoble my character, Akasha will impede my spiritual evolution and will punish me a lot, according to Bardon and Raw in step 8?

2-) I can not have dark thoughts, get angry or feel anger anymore?

3-) Can not I work and get the results of Bardon’s second book?

4-)I will not be able to work and get the results of Bardon’s second book?

5-) Everything that can be learned and done with Bardon’s second book, becoming an Adept of that level, could it be with some system of the path of the left hand?

6-) So far, Bardon’s second book is the most powerful and varied of all the grimoires, with a list of entities, without having to offer the soul to anyone, is there an equivalent to the path of the left? a powerful dark adept equal to an adept of Light … as above so below … what would be the system or the book?

7-) It confuses me about balance but in El Paso 8 it seems to tilt the balance towards the light and eliminate or transmute the inner darkness

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Wow that’s awesome, I’m also starting with magic
-what books do you recommend?
-Did you get to work with any entity in Bardon’s second book?
-What system do you follow?
I read Bardon’s 3 books and also Konstantinos’s book on evocation, I’m starting with IIH exercises and I’m going to complement with the Konstantinos exercises, I come into conflict with respect to step 8 of IIH …
Bardon’s first book, most of his exercises are neutral, but when you get to step 8 he gets more dogmatic about ennobling the character, I think he refers to the exercises of the Electromagnetic Fluids and the Akasha …

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If you can disentangle the dogma from the work you can still get powerful results. :thinking: i may be due for a rereading of his work later.

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So far from my own experience with other grimoires, Bardon’s second book is the most powerful potentially as long as these spirits agree to work with you.

I mean you have spirits there that can teach you invulnerability to all harm, including extremes in temperatures, fire, poisons, toxins, aging, being cut or shot. Other spirits can teach you things like heating up someone so fast and instantly that they burn to a crisp if you ever are in true danger of your life and need it, ways to destroy entire cities, creating severe natural disasters like volcano eruptions and such. This is all besides controlling the elements to extraordinary degrees in other ways, and all the vast knowledge they can give/teach you about controlling the entire earth in certain ways with it, the different planets and there influences, expanding your consciousness, controlling the will of vast parties, I could go on and on about it, seeings how there’s at least 360 spirits in Malkuth or the Zone Girdling the Earth that Bardon mentions and methodically breaks down there talents, not to mention all the ones from each planetary sphere as well, and the elemental kings and queens.

With all of that being said though, Bardon specifically only chose these “handful” of spirits and according to him they are all positive spirits, however he mentions there are just as many and varied negative spirits to each zone or sphere that he describes, so there’s no reason the negative spirits can’t teach you just as much in their polarity.

So, you’d have to be able to reach these spheres and get in touch with their negative spirits(or another spirit that knows them and can put in a good word for you if your raw potential doesn’t impress them) and get them to help you on your quest somehow.

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Honestly man as a grey magician and as someone whom loves franz bardons work, i do not think it is possible to use his steps while being black or grey. The alchemical nature they approach is based on destroying to ego completely and being completely polarized by removing all desire. That is not the way of the black or grey magician. Controlling the elements all books i have read all begin with meditation on the self, determining which element’s you are over or under, and then balancing them into perfection. But in order to do that, the ego must be shut down, the left hand path takes. And taking is driven by the ego. So i cannot see it working and if anyone knows of a different working similar to that of franz bardon which embraces ego please let me know!!!

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By step 8 you’d have developed enough introspection/intuition to know if it’s just dogma that he’s spewing or not.

Also by that point you’d be able to call upon any spirit you wish and be able to learn from them, know if they’re lying to you, know if it’s the right spirit, know if you really want to go dark, how dark you want to go, other dark spirits would probably have contacted you or tried to in order to see if you’ll work with them, etc,.

I wouldn’t let a step in a system that’s waaaay off in the distance(some don’t reach it in one lifetime apparently) stop me from investigating and developing my own power/consciousness up until said point.

If that system is still highly effective in building a solid foundation of power and being able to control and take that power with you no matter what system you choose going forward, then I’d use whatever I could from it.

That’s just me though. I just take whatever I find truly works, is helpful, and sits right with me and ignore the rest.

A magician by the name of Justin Bedwell has completed Bardon’s IIH system, and doesn’t mention any dogma about this, only that once you start working the system, the universe will throw things at you to make you evolve faster than you normally would otherwise, and to see if you’re really serious about developing yourself to these heights as any true magickal system does anyway.

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@Rcs4215 I started reading initiation into Hermetics and I came to a similar conclusion in that I would have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to fit it into my path. And having just left a different path for similar reasons, it ended up not feeling right for me to continue.

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Actually Bardon doesn’t recommend killing the ego at all, just “refining” it. He specifically stresses the importance of leaving no part of the ego behind in it’s training(mental, astral, physical) and talks of the difference between the mystic and the magician, where the mystic destroys self(ego) to receive dissolution into the all, and the magician refines the ego while accepting the powers of the all bit by bit.

He just has very strict guidelines of what is allowed to be a part of the ego and what he refers to as the negative aspects of the elements, compared to traditional left-hand path workings.

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In fact in his Practice of Magical Evocation book, there are spirits there that help with/teach astral immortality, as well as cosmic letters that do the same, along with other things an ego might want need(health, wealth,sex, etc,.)

Your ego is specifically tied to this as your astral self is the personality(ego ) of this incarnation and the part of you that doesn’t survive normal death usually, until/unless you take steps to solidify your current personality somehow.

That’s why most just totally forget everything when they die, because the ego has NOT been solidified, even though their mental body is immortal and always has been, their current personality is not.

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well @Arnold I believe @MysticNick just gave you a clear cut answer

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@MysticNick You’re right, Bardon’s system is very neutral at first, no matter what path you choose after, the first steps will be very useful and practical, I plan to continue until I reach step 8, try to refine the ego by ennobling my character, depending on how I feel and from the results I will follow the whole Bardon system, but otherwise I would take the path of the Left Hand, if there were a system as powerful as Bardon’s … I see it as a dogma, since it forbids dark thoughts and anger and there is threat of punishment, demands pure thoughts, for me it is a dogma, I do not feel so comfortable with it, there being other possibilities (maybe)
Bardon says that you can work with the negative spirits of each sphere, but that to ennoble the character is paramount, do you think that working with the negative spirits could achieve the same and without ennobling the character?
Have you worked with any Bardon entity?
How much freedom is there in refining the ego?
There will be circumstance that could generate anger or sadness, the Adept of Light is forbidden to feel that, how to react?

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@TheStorm immortal void being?
Everything that Bardon exposes in his second book, could be achieved without ennobling the character and without surrendering the soul or making a pact?
Fusing the soul with the spirit to be immortal and never reincarnate and also make the physical body immortal, invulnerability to the elements, weapons and other entities, cure incurable diseases, fly, teleportation, communication and animal control, including the philosopher’s stone, all Can that be done with the left hand?
Is there a book I can read about that, that has the list of entities and their powers like Bardon’s second book? Or books that you recommend
I am very interested in knowing more about the system that you follow

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The Electromagnetic Fluids and the Akasha are the most powerful points of the Bardon system, including the evocation, and the warning of not going beyond step 8 refers to using the Electromagnetic Fluids and the Akasha, as I understand everything has its negative side, as it is above it is below, the Akasha is the ether, I read that there is the dark ether, or the primal chaos that would be a source of infinite power, is that true?
A Dark Adept could not use Electromagnetic Fluids because the Akasha would punish him if he used it in a negative way?
Is there a negative Electromagnetic Fluid?

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How? What do you advise me?

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I would check out Justin the magician’s blog to get another take on Bardon’s System if I were you.

Here’s a link to his blog talking about IHH: http://justinbthemagician.blogspot.com/2008/04/iih-walkthrough.html

He has his own thoughts on Bardon’s System and advice while working thru it. He’s no fluffy bunny, but I wouldn’t call him dark either.

He even has special rituals in his own book for not only protection of your own, but retribution for wrongs against you or your family.

As far as anger and sadness: Where is that mentioned by Bardon not being allowed to happen at all?

I know from personal experience that there is such a thing as righteous anger, but too much anger would imbalance you and could possibly hold you back from your practices and your best in life, if you don’t let it go and move on.

Perhaps, that’s what Bardon meant.

If you do your own research, Bardon was not perfect and even smoked.

He also ate meat and liked sex very much apparently, so I’d take the other dogma with a grain of salt.

I will say this though, the closer you come to source(Akasha) the faster your thoughts seem to manifest and more powerfully, so it’s better not to be angry or stay angry at your family, otherwise you may cause them harm by thinking about hurting them in that instant.

That’s why I think Bardon tries to get you into what he feels is a solid foundation emotionally/astrally so that when the real powers start being bestowed upon you, you don’t regret that you have them, and you don’t do something that you’ll regret later.

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See this is why I said that Bardon’s second book is the most powerful grimoire I’ve seen because of the vast numbers of spirits, and their powers that they possess. I’ve no doubt that there are other spirits who can teach or empower in such ways, whether left hand or not.

I just don’t know of a SINGLE book or grimoire that has as many and powerful spirits in such a methodical manner.

I don’t claim to know of, nor have first hand knowledge of all the other grimoires in existence, but in all my years of occult searching, I’ve yet to see a single book with anything remotely resembling some of the vast powers these beings possess and the sheer number of them as well.

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From what I can remember of bardon’s system it works similarly as the golden dawn. all the work starting out is alchemical prep work to prepare for evocations to go further into spiritual nature of things. In bardon’s it’s with the entities in his book you work with with golden dawn it is preparation for Enochian work with i remember right. With both systems though if you were to follow the methods as given you will have both the knowledge and the power to manifest most if not all that most spirits are evoked and petitioned for.

But it can help if your mental paradigm complements the system so your subconscious is not fighting you each step of the way. Both of these have a lot of ties into the people who developed them so it can be easier for some with similar minds the deeper you get into it hence the dogma and the need to sift through what it workable and what you can ignore. That doesn’t mean there are no risks though as elemental and planetary imbalances of energy are a thing and they are not fun.

My understanding of these works comes from my understanding of the hermetic principles. Magic to me on a lot of levels are the methods of how to utilize these principles to to manifest change either within self or outside of self.

I am the kind who prefers to figure out how to do for myself and this applies to my magic so I mostly worked with raw energies. I only very recently preformed my first ritual evocation of my first spirit to learn from it but it went well. Though I have had interactions with various spirits who made themselves know to me.

I didn’t learn from one system as a whole since I started really,really young and didn’t have the patience to follow bardon’s systems for very long but the methods are still useful to me. and if you can follow them all the way I have very little doubt they can be very powerful.

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I do not get to understand well what kind of character, personality and attitudes I should and would have, to what extent I would have permission to feel and react
I’m going to read the Blog, do you know if I can communicate with Justin?

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You can ask him questions on his page. I’ve done this before and he’s answered in reasonable time and with what I felt was good advice. There is a comment section at the bottom usually and that’s how I and others have communicated with him.

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Don’t worry these things. If you want to do the work do the work it. The energies you work with will attune you to the work. bardon tends to put an emphasis on balancing all the energies while the golden dawn grades have you work with each element for a number of months to gradually adjust to them so you can use them effectively.

As I said both come with their risks but this is the same with all magic. In the case of elemental,planetary and most energetic workings of this nature the energies will manifest in your life as you work with them causing situations that will result in you better attuned to that element before you work with the next.

If you have a strong sense of who you are it can help you keep yourself balanced while working with the elements. That way you can get more out of the positive than being ruled by the negative traits.

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