Focus and magick shift to Shem angels rather than Goetia

Can this cause sickness, life upheavals, etc?
If so, how do you navigate through it?


Well… I have read that a certain “balance” (so to speak) of energies is necessary, everyone and their mother probably remembers the anecdote of Koetting going back to the Mormon church for a time, yada-yada.

It seems like you’re just adjusting to a different type of energy because you’re not all that used to it, so I would say take it slowly :man_shrugging:


@Nightside I tell you plainly I’ve never been a big believer in shem angels.

Here’s just one of many problems with them. King Asmoday, duke Dantalion, ect are djinns, that is the prevailing consensus among magicians here on the forum. And there are many others and other classes of spirit within the Goetia that have nothing to do with a JCI background.

How is it a Shem angel would have any authority over a djinn.

Thats just one puzzling inconsistency.

@Nightside you want my advice

Your making a mistake.

You’re afraid to evoke the 72 because you’re scared of what will happen in your after life or you’re scared that you’ll evoke something you can’t control.

Have I got it about right?

You think switching teams and going the angelic route is the answer.

Straight up man: it’s not!

What this is is fear controlling you.

You need to do some shadow work and confront your fears and misgivings head on.
Regardless of which spirits you end up deciding resonate strongest with you.

I tell you this not to be a dick bro but I’m trying to help you.

You switch thĂ­ngs up every three to five weeks and try to reinvent yourself and your practice.

You need to stop worrying about angels and demons for awhile and work on you bro


Well yeah, I figured the energy switch is the leading culprit, not to mention each have their different view of customer service.

@Mike_Bee I hear what you’re saying and agree. I guess through the fears I thought restructuring my life on m,y terms could also be accomplished through the angels of the Shem, because their energy seems to jive with me more, but the fears you listed are quite true, I will take your advice. I do however want to see if Vehuiah can deliver. And if it fits my view of what it should be presented as and how it works.

I know your views on it and especially it seems after Sitra Ahra/Achra, and I agree in part but disagree in part, this is another reason to see. I do know there is the likelihood of me not being able to control an angel, despite biblical stories such as in genesis. Such as I evoke one of purity and a sexual thought or envy rears up. That might not go well with angels that can smite a country overnight. And perhaps some of those angels that did are part of the 72. Only way to tell is to chat with both sides and get the full picture. Thats where my mind is while ignoring the fears temporarily. Shadow work necessary indeed.

Thanks you both :slight_smile:


It seems though having flu like symptoms on the third day of a new job is so me, but not, it is an actual cause and affect. I think part of it is not because I picked up a bug or had bad food, but because of the switch in energy. Same as if and when you enter or exit the occult, there is always an energy switch it seems, and it seems to influence your entire natal chart combined with a horary chart. My opinion.


Fair enough


I dont think you’re a dick either, and respect you and your work and tutorials.
I respect all teachers or those who aid me in progressing.
I do want to explore the qlippoth and the qaballah, in order to have an even fuller picture.
I do also know I need structure and a kick in the ass at times, so perhaps a lodge or order is a good idea for me. Sadly, the only ones I know are RHP, except for perhaps an AA/OTO lodge. Or at least following the OAA to the letter.
Then, an even bigger magical picture, and do want to chat with all 144. If I can stop being a wuss.


When I worked through the 72 unlocking (Goetia) I had physical symptoms of the energy shift more often than not. It fluctuacted from mild flu symptoms to more severe stuff, usually gone after 2-3 days (thats why I would leave a few days of rest in between each unlocking). Check in with your doc if you need to but it is very well possible to develop illness symptoms from energy shifts in my book.
Edit: my first unlocking actually brought me to the ER, if it makes you feel better :smiley:


Cool, thats what I thought. I know Ive pissed off one of the 72 already if not more. So relationship building with them might be tough. As for the rest of the 144 I guess I should work them first in order to avoid a ping pong game of energy cause and effect.
So, Vahuiah first might help as well with will as well as self esteem.

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I mean, you don’t have to build relationships with each and every single spirit you’re planning to work with. I know that its tempting to have everyone and their mother on speed dial but I think that you will find out with what spirit you vibe with (even “off duty”) and what will remain a strictly business kind of thing.

There are spirits who aren’t really fond of me for several reasons but they weren’t necessarily harder on me than usual (although I kinda anticipated it). It shouldn’t stop you from reaching out if you feel that you need their expertise with something.


That’s good to know. I do owe an evocation to a handful of the 72. I just down want to be perpetually sick or stuck in areas of life consistently. So while I acknowledge working with the 73-144 will have minor upheavals, just like working with the 72, I just want minor bouts of chaos occurring.
After all my entire point is to structure a life I want, while also having a full picture and breadth of experience as a ceremonial magician. At least Im not arm chairing it, though I have completed a few RHP readings of Neophyte material, after that some LHP resources. Unfortunately a large share of LHP resources assume you’re adept or have no structure in terms of grades or spheres. Save Karlsson.


I think thats a reasonable approach, having a part of your shit together before forcing yourself through a spiritual working that you can’t properly process or apply to mundane aspects because there is so much else going on that needs your attention. (speaking as someone who had to put a major working on hold myself because I know that this shit will cause a really big “Whoopsie” in my life and I am currently not well prepared for this lesson. I know that I will come back to it but its not right now.)


Exactly. Im rebuilding my life atm, and dont want the winds to blow my house down.


According to their own Islamic mythology, God sent the angels to wipe the djinn from the face of the earth because of their corrupt ways, and they very nearly succeeded, with only a few surviving, so the angels would indeed have authority over the djinn, at least those angels who work under God, like those of the Shemhamforash.

It’s interesting to note that the Islamic concept of the djinn parallels that of the shedim in Judaism. Rather than being distinctly malevolent like the later Christian idea of demons, both djinn and shedim are considered to be a mix of both good and bad, with some among their numbers worshipping God, and helping humans.


Are all djinn even fire? Not to derail my own post, but it seems to me that a book title something like Silver Leaves, had djinn cryptograms that were revealed in moonlight.
Reportedly, some had success with it.


Smokeless fire, yes.

Remember people can make thoughtforms and have great success with them, and call them anything they like. Doesn’t make them actually Djinn.


So would switching work to elementals like sylphs or undines have a physical and life upheaval? If so, then are they their own currents?
In which case, the energy, the current switch stands as cause in sickness or upheavals.


The djinn were actually traditionally considered to be “human like” in that they were not fully ethereal beings like angels, but they did have the ability to become invisible and shapeshift.


It is unlikely working with elementals would cause any kind of upheaval in your life. However, it’s important to note that anything that affects you has the potential to cause distress. The undines, for example, specialize in the emotions, so working with them could bring up anything you have repressed, and force you to face your traumas.


Very good insight I hadn’t thought of that. Fair point.