Eternal suffering and omnipotence

Demons do. I assure you.

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Have you worked with Lilith? How can you say for sure she won't help a woman?

She may help a women she has a relationship with, so?

What right does she have to be the champion of women empowerment when she cowers before islam? She Helps islam infact!

What right? She never claimed to be ‘The Champion of Women Empowerment’.
Even if you just go by her myths in the Abrahamic religions, you would know that she doesn’t care about them at all…
You should really summon her and all those you claim are this or that, based on your opinions(I’m not calling them wrong)but how can you be sure of your views if you haven’t worked with any of them?

I myself am a thinker just like you, however I don’t think my theories are facts. I try and learn the truth from spirits themselves.

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And what does Lilith… even have to do with Feminism?


That's just factually inaccurate. The reason they don't help is because they can't manifest well in this world. If you give them a platform to manifest then they may be far more willing to provide assistance

Oh Really???
I’ll tell you what a story.
Hindu’s in sindh did a ritual and fasted for divine intervent of lord vishnu, because the muslim invaders were acting like they do, raping even kids and older women and had asked all people of sindh to convert.
So vishnu did incarnate, because he was obligated to, but when gods don’t want to help, they find an excuse. So he incarnates(as jhulelal), grows up in 1 day and preaches peace, and says “allah” and “ishwar” are one and the same. He said that the hindus and muslims were praying to the same god and should live peacefully. And he left. And muslims then acted the way they do,
and even to this day, hindu women are kidnapped, gangraped and sold (into prostitution) or married and converted. Even yound kids (boys) are gang raped.

Don’t defend the gods,
they have an agenda,
They won’t act even if you give them a platform,
They will show up, but get out as quickly.

What I said

"India is the only country, that lived under islamic rule for more that 800 years and survive. We did not give up or convert or abandon our gods. Have been worshipping for thousands years. Hindu civilization is the oldest one which is still alive on the planet. Gods abandoned us, we did not.

Whereever islam went, people converted, except india.
And don’t tell me the gods helped us.
Thousand+ of years of slavery, rape, child abuse, humiliation Is not help.
Even today it’s the same"

If you think I am lying, google about Jhulelal and sindh and condition of hindus there.
Or better yet, evoke and ask your gods themselves!!


I think there is something more underlying all this jadedness with spirits.

Seems like he has absolutely no interest in trying to find out for himself, seems like he just wants to debate with nothing to back it up.

After all, he said so himself.


I don’t see why some people have to get personal, but ok.

I also said in this thread that they flee me, the part which you chose to ignore.

I do wish to have an experience with them and I in a way have had.
But it has to be a two way thing no?!?

The other guy who mocked me said my “request was null & void” didn’t PM me.

Evocation is not so simple, not in my condition.

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You are right.
I don’t have anything solid against her.

But from my experience,
I know this to be true.

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Ah, so you have a “condition”?

There is your limiting factor.

Remove your limiting factor and it will be.

They flee you? Are you able to see them and hear them? How do you know they flee you? If you have no experience with magick, how do you know this?

So you want to have an experience with them, but you have no experience in magick. So perhaps you need to work on getting more experience in magick and to spend more time working on yourself, so that it actually IS a two way street?

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Magic to me is the art of practicing rituals, spells to manifest things. Not everything supernatural!

I’ve felt their negative presence in my life,
Though I blame myself for allowing it and take responsibility.

You are correct here.


I have proved my point though.
Even when given a platform, gods betray.

And if my “limiting factor” stops them from contacting me, even when I wish to confront them for their nonsense, even if I provoke them. Then these egregores can’t claim to be gods when their very existence depends on my (our) perception of them.


You haven’t proven anything, nor given a platform.

Nor have they betrayed you.

They haven’t even noticed you.

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Read the thread,
I am not going to keep repeating posts.

I’ve read more than enough.

Tell me, how large do you think the physical cosmos is?

Fucking huge. Infinite to us it seems.

How large do you think the astral is?

Infinite basically.

Now add to that past/present/future, which is basically the same on the astral.

Do you think an entity who has millions and millions of entities talking to it every moment will care about some guy on some forum, without any experience or ability to talk to these entities, that says how these entities are weak, that they don’t care, that they are cowards, etc?

If I was in such a position, I wouldn’t give two shits.

Anyway, I got more important shit to do. You believe in what you want - you’re the one who has the power to choose what to believe in.

Hope you do well. :slight_smile:


And then there are parallel universes, infinite universes.
You assume they have access to the whole multiverse and go and do whatever they what.
Egregores who need offerings to survive?

Did you read my post about vishnu’s jhulela avtar?
That is the proof of the betrayal, cowardice of the gods. A whole kingdom did a ritual for divine intervention. GAVE HIM A PLATFORM

Read this thread by a real magician,
Who had pacts with gods and did evocation,

Lucifer does come across as a coward.

And about egregores not noticing me,

I won’t tell you anything about that,
They run away!!!
But you won’t believe my experience,
Because you have made up your mind.

I hope you do well too :slight_smile:


This doesn’t come from personal experience and is therefore of questionable validity.


I am a sindhi myself.
And I told you it’s still the same here in india for hindus
You don’t think there are hindu groups?!?!
I study mythology but don’t pick and choose to believe what myths show “my god” in good light.

And I told you,
Don’t believe me, or google.
Evoke and ask the beings you trust.


I hear you, but I wonder, why evoke Vishnu to stop the Muslims?

Durga would have been a better choice, even Kali, or Rudra, YES if they were Vaishnavites they are going to call on Him but the Gita shows He inspires man to do what is necessary, namely, killing to death anyone who corsses certain lines (of which raping your kids and old women is one, though Europe is still struggling to grasp that) - so maybe it was a case of right method, wrong spirit?

Still I can emphasise with them. :thinking:


This is a really interesting post and it’s gotten kind of buried because I think a lot of us who shun JCI relgigion tune out topic titles like yours (no offence) because those are concepts often used in those faiths.


Vishnu was the main and top GOD, as he himself claimed in gita! Promised to come down to fight evil whenever needed.
He comes down, knowing very well the situation we were in. And betrays. He did not inspire people to fight evil this time, but to live with it.
He too had his agenda.

In west begal(india), where durga is worshiped alot, muslims don’t allow hindus to worship, celebrate her festivals.

I don’t even want to talk about shiv/kali.

All gods seem are useless here.

Only the god of jews seems to be truly interested in helping the jews. XD