Discussing The Nature Of Light & Dark, Do Science & Magick Crossover?

I think that over-rationalization is any attitude that does not evolve.

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Ok. Thatā€™s all I needed.

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Your brain waves affect matter and energy as demonstrated in the double slit experiment, And yes in ritual, You know the theta gamma sync.

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I believe I have heard that before. Isnt that apart of quantum physics

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Yes.

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Oh ok. I see. I get the gist of what you are saying.

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:sunglasses::ok_hand: Awesome.

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God DAMN, we have some christian science logic and philosophy hiding in the clothes of black magicians! Let me both support and destroy some of these concepts.

Both. Iā€™m guessing that not everyone here is, though, at least on the science side. Thatā€™s the bitch of polarization, in life and magick. Find yourself swinging too far to one of two schools of thought and you become mediocre at both.

A quick word on dark matter. There is nothing dark about it unless you are referring to what the naked eye can see, and even then that is questionable to me. We might be seeing an aspect or effect of dark matter all the time and we just do not realize it because we do not yet understand dark matter or how it relates to everything around it. When they say ā€˜darkā€™ matter, it is in reference to the utterly unknown nature of it, not any actual quality of the stuff. It is in fact still a form of matter, so I do not see where it even plays into a concept of light and darkness. Itā€™s all part of the same entirety.

Exactly. It is an idea we use to make measurements, and consequentially an awesome manifestation and reflection of human limitation.

No, you canā€™t. Again, time is an idea. You can alter your own or someoneā€™s perception of time. You can effect the course of events, even in ways apart from the vibrational state you assume at any given point in your perception of ā€˜timeā€™. You can also (hypothetically) ā€˜travelā€™ time according to some physicists. And much more. But you cannot STOP time. Some THING or EVENT could possibly stop the vibrations that enable physical existence on this plane, and perhaps that would have a ripple effect into other planes, causing the cessation of everything. But you canā€™t stop time, because time exists nowhere but in your mind. Thatā€™s why magick to effect ā€˜timeā€™ works; it all begins in your mind. But in the context you suggest, you cannot stop time. You cannot halt the movement of something that does not exist. To think this is a thing is to utterly disregard things like vibrational composition of physicality, string theory, and most importantly ā€œas above, so below, as within so without.ā€ I am not a fan of cognitive dissonence in my personal occult theories.

Thereā€™s that useless over polarization again. It is a good thing to keep an open mind. It is a good thing to unshackle yourself and your potential. At the same time it is essential to maintain a level of skepticism and question things. For example, you refer to a parasite god which is somehow linked to existence on this plane. Which one? You definitely have one in mind, but there are more than a few. Unless you are referring to the source of this sphere, in which case i donā€™t believe you two have met. Or anyone else for that matter. Or have we all met it in person in the mirror every day, lol? You saw fit to question the merits of an entity or creative force, and in the next breath spout the importance of keeping an open mind to a fellow human. Do you not see the philosophical error of that line of reason?

I know a great deal about science and I am here to tell you that the word means the same thing in both vernaculars. The problem is that in their complete ass-wipe arrogance most mainstream scientists conflate a theory with a fact. All a theory is in science is an idea or hypothesis that has been tested many times under controls and has yet to be proven wrong. It is also yet to be proven as objective fact. A good scientist understands this and allows for the possibility for his theory to be altered or disproven. Good scientists have proven many accepted theories bunk, and modified others, just as a good occultist should as well. There is not a great deal of difference between science and the occult, but misuse and misunderstanding of words and philosophical failures have made mainstream science into a kind of god to worship that it is simply not, and so they have polarized themselves to look upon their occult brothers as quacks by sheer circumstance of government funding.

Again, a theory is an idea that has been repeatedly tested under controls and has yet to be proven wrong, but also yet to be proven objective. When it makes the leap from theory to law (in science speak) it is assumed to be ā€˜trueā€™. Even then, donā€™t assume you know too much, because scientific laws have been debunked before, modified in other cases, and in many cases based on incomplete information which could later alter the understanding of said law. Hell, we donā€™t even know why gravity happens, just what it does on a level we can quantify it. Not too long ago we found a spot in the universe that seems to disregard our known concept of gravity.

Iā€™m sorry, but that is 100% incorrect. Paradoxes, even in the context you suggest, most certainly exist. How am I so sure of this? Because I am in one. The very fact that I am typing this response is only possible through paradox, or the result of one. Re-examine what paradox means in a scientific context. It does not mean it canā€™t occur, it just mean it should not occur, so it forces you to explore more and ask new questions, like a good scientist should.

This is why I will never understand or accept either side of a darkness or light debate. Because we are in a subjective existence there is not a single one of us that has a great enough objective understanding of the full scope of things to definitively say one way or the other. I will continue to ask questions and go to whichever areas those questions lead me. For me, that is science and the true nature of ascendance.

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I donā€™t try to rationalize the occult with science, in the sense of explaining away something happening as just coincidence, or just the result of a ā€œnaturalā€ phenomena, but I do firmly believe that the two are and should be fundamentally compatible.

I believe, along with Crowley, that we should approach magick with ā€œthe method of science, the aim of religionā€-- and the scientific method is actually how we determine what magick works for us and what doesnā€™t. We create a hypothesis (doing X ritual will produce Y results), test it in the lab (our temple), and record our outcome (did Y result happen or did Z?) . If our hypothesis was incorrect, we revise it and proceed to test the new one. Verifiable results are what are important: this is the only way to make sure we that we are not just deluding ourselves in the ritual chamber!

But beyond this, I think that eventually what physics and cosmology is uncovering right now, in terms of quantum mechanics and other ā€œspookyā€ action-at-a-distance phenomena, will actually provide an explanatory mechanism for magick. I donā€™t believe in anything supernatural, in the literal sense of the term as something permanently beyond scientific understanding. Everything has an explanation, even if we donā€™t know what it is yet.

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For all intents and purposes fact. Nothing is fact, I honestly canā€™t think of one thing that isnā€™t subjective, so pardon my misspeech

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I donā€™t know what you mean by your ā€œinā€ a paradox or how you could demonstrate it. Other than that I agree with what your saying. And Iā€™m not claiming my view answers every question just that it answers most or at least more than it doesnā€™t.

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Truthā€¦ in my opinion,. all that matters in magick (though not elsewhere, and debating is certainly fun and educational) is what WORKS - if my Magickal Pen called Dennis makes everything I write with Him come true, it barely matters whether itā€™s because some ancient starseed reality hacking device ended up in the plastic of His casing, or that the moment He was filled with ink occurred under the specific alignment of astral bodies, or whether itā€™s because Iā€™m actually the only creator of my own reality,

Where having a working theory is useful, is in the concept that belief is a tool and force in magick - that subjective synthesis (synthesising subjective belief in a thing) works, with or without other factors and techniques, to create the desired outcome.

So to find a theory and back it up with objective-as-possible science is going to aid people in belief, if thatā€™s what they care about - for another, it may be rationalising this within their religious belief system (hence the miracles of many Christian saints) and so on.

And to fear a thing is, to some extent, to believe in it - it harvests an emotion that is related to the possibility of this thing existing. I chuck that in because I know fear is a factor in magick, for various people at various times.

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In my opinion itā€™s like this when we really look into light cannot exist with out darkness, but darkness can exist without light, also the darkness is what is known as void, so darkness embodies infinite possibility. In the Ahrimanic Path it is understood, that we are emanations of darkness eternal / the void, the first source of existence was the void, this constant growing abysmal darkness.

In the path of smoke we understand that light is stasis, limitation and weakness and darkness is a great canvas for unlimited power, even out of the ahrimanic path for example in The Mastering Soul Travel Course, Ea Koetting teaches someone to remove the chakraā€™s from the body as the light frequencies are imprisoning the self.

Light is not Good, Darkness is not Evil and vice versa, because we are speaking on primordial forces and Good and Evil are man-made assumptions. We even see dark energy is a unknown mysterious energy which permeates all space in the universe, the amount of universal dark matter, dark energy and darkness in general compared to light is crazy.

Light is quite basic and can be looked at and understood, played with, we understand the entirety of the light spectrum of color, but black absorbs all color and with all our scientific advances we canā€™t understand darkness, one huge misconception is darkness is the absence of light that is incorrect from both a scientific and magickal stand point.

When you analyse everything youā€™ll understand darkness is unlimited and light is limited, theres no comparison which one would be better as a catalyst of empowerment, spiritual growth, expansion of consciousness, hidden mysteryā€™s revealed. merging with darkness eternal and expanding and ascending all at the same time.

This is my belief and practice on the situation, without throwing in too much science because its apparent science cannot explain half of much as it said it could years ago.

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The odd thing then is ā€¦I have defeated a dark entity with lightā€¦ my sword of light ā€¦

Azazel has told me my power is lightā€¦
And a part of my light is bound to a lampā€¦by anot her magician.

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Iā€™ve had a similarity. Iā€™ll pm you.

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Yeah light can banish darkness but when we banish this is a art of removing your perception of the spirit, then the entity cannot hold its form without your will, focus and desire and consciousness, Ea Koetting and Alister Crowley both spoke on these mechanics.

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Azazel prized me giving him my light above all elseā€¦to the extent he searched out a worthy magician to keep it safe

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The paradox of this is supposedly we cannot get rid of darkness or destroy it because darkness is infinite, I believe that darkness usurps the power of light and uses it as fuel this is talk about much in dark alchemy and the Ahrimanic path.

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Thatā€™s another thing when we become darkness we even use the light as a fuel for our inner darkness merging with outter darkness.

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Another question: why completely and utter darkness?
Of course being enki I try to spell it as cumpletely

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