Demons of Magick by Gordon Winterfield (Tips from an Adept)

Targeting, being thorough emotionally, and strategy with other rites if needed

This is no beginners book for “open, fire, and enjoy” magick. It takes some degree of attention to detail and familiarity with all parts of it to get good at consistently

Beginners can certainly use it but it’s like getting a belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu or something and competing. Gonna take some practice to do well

It’s a masterpiece but it’s closer to learning an instrument than it is to something like rapping. Both can get you on the radio but one of them takes more than a pulse to get good at in the same day. It’s powerful but it’s probably their most difficult book to get proficient in for a reason. It’s like guitar lessons, it takes some work getting familiar with it all

Sigils on the other hand can do amazing things and be learned in an afternoon. They’re less of a “big deal” to most people so they’re easier to forget about. If you’re looking to solve a problem and less for mastery I’d start there and microstep the situation. Maybe make a shoal

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Discussing my lack of use of a circle, is a circle necessary for Ritual One? If so, or even if not, what would the best type of circle be?

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The one in the ritual opening, “From above: Metatron” functions as it along with the 4 other archangels handling the directions and elements

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I will do more rituals with different demons and different little goals to the big one. Sometimes I lose hope and start thinking that it is impossible to achieve my goal, but with time, I sense more and more of the demon presence and gain more confidence. I know it can take years, but demons will hear me and help me. Thank you for the wise advice!

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You know, another thing is what we classify as a “real need”. In watching a Behemoth-X video lately, he mentions something to this tune, but you have to analyze what you currently have in life, and if you have a few basic needs, you’re doing okay.
So, if the spirits are opposed to working on a non-need of a person, how is it that all of these people are getting the results they want? There must be a loose standard or fine print somewhere.
This has been a hangup for me, like, do I want to piss off a spirit for wasting their time on doing something I myself can do? It seems laziness is somehow involved in this, or feelings of entitlement in the magician, etc.
Im trying to work with Orobas and Foras, primarily for astral/clair/psychic senses, and using the evocation keys as mindful meditation as well as the senses and elements invocation kept in the same meditation as well, it can be interesting.
Memorization of the evocation keys, angel names, title and name of the spirit, the invocations, these will be helpful for me, so perhaps go back to flash cards.
Someone also mentioned that Tarot helped open up their senses, I have been trying to “guess” the card off the deck lately as well as the Qlippothic Middle Pillar and chant from Lilith to open astral perception.

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If the petitions work for “real need” only, then I am sure 99.99% of all petitions will not be fulfilled. Everyone wants something that is not vital for his existence. I think the key is in a different thing.
Not the need, but the assumption you already have it.

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It’s w very inexact science. Even with exact science going into physics deeply the laws stop worming and it all becomes probability. Uncertainty principle, valence orbitals, etc.

Real need is an emotional experience, not so much WS a logical one. It directly relates to your sphere of influence, your perceived sphere of influence, and the velocity of change you’ve felt.

It’s why blood alcohol content is a very stupid measure of intoxication for a lot of people. One could be “legally drunk” and not actually be under the influence of the substance in any discernable way if they’re a big drinker.

Same way Bill Gates lost an assload of money and didn’t care. The number was huge from a “legally reasonable” standpoint yet it allegedly didn’t ping his radar because his wealth had become so great. There’s courtroom reality and there’s real life and I’m yet to meet someone in that world that admits the distinction. Kinda funny

This stuff can’t be fully defined in a logic assignment. It’s experiential and perception is reality

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Easy.

First you cannot piss of spirits if you are in control, if you are not in control and have authority stop doing magick.

Second, if you subconscious is opposed to your conscious goals then nothing will manifest. Look at the tree of life. The receiving side (unconscious) and the conscious side(conscious) come together at yesod, which then materializes your manifestation in Malkuth. Manifestation only works if your conscious and subconscious are aligned. I worked with one of the 72 names on that and also received support in this theory, but its PG.

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I agree. It seems to me a lot of the claims on “need” in relation to evoking or invoking a spirit is that spirits don’t want to deal with laziness or procrastination (me as a example of the two). I just want to do things the right way, and put in as much effort myself as I can so not to piss off a spirit for wasting their time.

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Maybe you could work on those issues first with the demons. If it makes you feel any better I have those issues too.

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This is excellent!!

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Would there be any issues by evoking spirits EA identified (Kingdoms of Flame, Evoking Eternity, Mastering Evocations, etc(, while Im using DoM, as long as Im not asking the same working?

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So, if i have a specific time period within which i want an ex for example.

lets say i want an ex back anytime within the next 3 months, Should i mention this is every ritual, (i plan on doing multiple rituals for different aspects which all lead to one end result, breakup and separation and reconciliation with me)
so do i mention something like “… bla
h blah blah, within 3 months from now”?

(could you give me an example on how to phrase it?)

Setting time limits on results is usually not advised because it can set you up for failure. I’ve had rituals that took about 1 year to come to complete manifestation and this was one of my first ever petitions; if I had said “within a week” or given a similar limit then it’s likely I would have just ended up confused, disappointed, and convinced magic doesn’t work.

Other stuff has taken months to show up. Don’t choke your workings with timeframes; magick works via coincidence and it can take time for the avenues of opportunity to align properly “behind the scenes”.

I think the book even mentions it specifically, or it might be one of GoM’s other books: if you’re willing to wait years, the results might happen in seconds, but if you’re insistent on getting your results in hours, you could be waiting years. Not an exact quote, but the sentiment remains.

Even when I did put timeframes on petitions (not so much “within x amount of time” but “for X event” or “on X day”), the ritual worked, but the details were not exactly what I asked for.

If you want a better idea of timing then maybe look at having a divination done before or after the ritual to see if you can determine what kind of timeframe you’re looking at.

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makes sense, i did get a little impatient, thank you for the wakeup call.
I do have one thing that i do want tho, i want to prevent certain things.
(for example i want to prevent my ex and her current although temporary guy, from going to amusement parks as i want to do that with her, since its her idea of the best date, and a few other similar things as well, eating certain foods together, maybe sexual stuff, etc etc)
so petitioning something like “prevent blah blah blah from happening between them, whilst they are being broken up to ensure me and her getting back together” is that okay?
that’s good yea?

Listening to the youtube video as mentioned above in the thread. Interesting stuff.

I would simplify it even more and approach them with layered workings. Like look at demons who can make them fight and argue, or rituals for her to see the worst in him, to remove her romantic feelings for him, and things like that.

Mundane advice is try not to get too hung up on the specifics; even if she does go to an amusement park with him it doesn’t mean that you can’t do the same thing together. And if you use the above rituals it could even work in your favour, e.g. say they do go on a date there and he refuses to pay for anything, which makes her see him as cheap/rude, or he spends all day complaining about waiting in lines, so she gets annoyed with him and loses romantic interest. Et cetera.

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As Im not interested in anything but a one night stand, and once in a great blue moon for that, what should I do about the romance demons when I go to petition them?

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Ask for a smoking hot FWB who’s emotionally unavailable and likes to get down & dirty no questions asked. That’s what I would do at least.

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Thanks for sharing your knowledge! I’m currently studying that book and planning to perform it in near future. This will help a lot :relaxed: