Demonic Timekeeping: Using Sacrifices, And Cause & Effect

General Discussion
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Time, and demonic perceptions of time, is a topic that comes up over and over, I just watched E.A. talking about it in a video and wanted to share a personal method fwiw.

Comprehending and using it is less complex than the length of the post suggests! :smiley:

  • What I have found so far is this: demons (and many other spirits) seem see things in terms of cause and effect - A will cause B - and NOT as we do, in linear time which we can measure with clocks and calendars.

So, their deadline won’t be “3am Wednesday” - it will be when an effect happens that cannot be reversed, which has physical, and possibly emotional and psychological, effects that create a kind of marker in BOTH space AND time, marked by a release of energy and a fundamental and irrevocable change in state.

(As an aside, this is a concept explored in the Torchwood epsiode Ghost Machine, where a transdimensional being uses a device that acts “like a GPS receiver, locking on to significant events to locate itself while traveling in time and space.” Wikpiedia)

Back to reality (!), this inability of spirits to follow our methods of marking time isn’t an absolute thing, it may vary from working to working, or person to person, but it seems to be the case quite often.

Often, having a deadline which is itself a dramatic state change WILL permit the spirit to work to the clock or dateline, but there are ways to benefit from this without some irrevocable consequence being the marker.

Method:

I found I can best mark things in time for demons by giving them a “sacrifice” which is to say a state-change that is irrevocable in an offered item.

Examples:

  • opening a bottle of beer, that can never be unopened and whose state fundamentally changes, especially once it’s poured out and offered. Champagne also works, there’s really no putting a cork back in a bottle once opened.

Norse shrines consisting of rocks used to be given offerings of blood and alcohol by having it poured on or near them and I think that may have been for the same reason - with a drink the true sacrifice comes when you willingly give it so that it can’t be recovered. At that point it becomes “killed” and its purpose as a drink is lost, equivalent to sacrificing a living being.

  • burning a candle – it can never become “unburned” again, that is a marker in the physical universe as well as energetic

  • sacrifice of a living being – this isn’t my cup of tea mostly, as sacrificing humans is currently against the law, and I’ll insert the usual request to study humane slaughtering (plenty of results on this for the smallhold farmer) if you intend to do it using non-human animals.

Archaeologists regularly find swords that were broken and thrown into watercourses when brand new and intact, with water used as an interface with the spirit world – the weapon was “killed” by being broken, the sacrifice occurred at that moment.

  • You can use this moment of sacrifice, that transforming moment when you offer a thing such that it cannot be recovered or returned to its former state, as a marker – instead of, “I need X by next Tuesday, 10pm” you mark the time with the offering, if possible placing it in its unsacrificed form on the altar beforehand, at least for a short time, so the spirit can synch up with the energy of the offering.

This is just one little trick I use a lot to mark time because for me, it works great – I think one of the reasons planetary and solar motion features in magick is that same irrevocable state-change, the Sun once risen won’t un-rise - it’ll only carry on its linear progression, and so on.

Tying a sacrificial marker TO solar, lunar, or planetary motions is also neat when possible, but if you have obsessive tendencies, don’t let them run you ragged doing this. :wink:

Finally, don’t make the sacrifice too awesome, you’re doing it as a marker and with some element of gifting the spirit, but it will happen whether or not you get your result, so don’t reward laziness or lies by giving a thing in hopes it will convince them; these spirits are beyond our comprehension in many ways, but the basic rules of fair exchange and not paying for work that wasn’t done are remarkably mundane in application, at least in my experience.

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So in a certain light, the giving of an offering is akin to practicing your godhood, in that you are purposefully changing a thing’s trajectory and even taking all it’s potential in order to increase potential for your operation to succeed, or as benefit to the entity?

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I believe that’s the case, yes - there was an ancient post on here that made the case FOR using incense, or at least some substance that undergoes a kind of alchemical change, in evocation, not so much for the CGI-aspect of seeing the spirit manifest in the smoke (though that certainly does happen and does have value) but rather, for that gateway moment of irrevocable sacrifice though a change to its state.

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I just had a dream about time. Something about you can’t change something unless you have domain over time?

Nonetheless the post is very interesting! Well done :+1:

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They’ve been banging that drum to me for a while, mastery over time etc.

It kind of led into the LSM stuff I did where I saw the concept of a thing leaping to another thing (caase and effect, state change, polarity, observer/observed) as the basic axis of creation from which all things flow.

This is (partially, aside from common sense and observation of reality) why I find all the “Unity! one thing one mind one people one concept one-one-ONE” crap so luantic and anti-life.

A thing only exists and has life and experiences, evolution and development, in relationship to other, different, things - cludging everything into a likeminded mass that accepts no differentiation is the literal obliteration of life the Egyptians conceptualised as, not muh edgy dark evils (that’s Set’s job! :rofl:) , but actual destruction, dead stasis, with no-one left to feel clever about it.

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I agree lol

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The dream went like this. I was on a table. @AdamThoth was on the other side sitting across from me. We had a note pad. I was asking about time travel, because it had been on my mind lately, as to whether or not it had any merit. I asked some questions I don’t remember but what I do remember is if I could change the course of an event. He replied: it would not be that simple. Then I asked how can I change something. He said: by having domain over time. We only wrote on the pad.

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Well observed, in fact when you advised me regarding my request for Belial back in February, the cause and effect thing worked.I got a call from my dad in 30 minutes of pouring the bottle and he offered to clear the cheque due the next day.

Animal sacrifices work too, so does an intention to ‘never do something again’ (unless you forget it and it backfires)

One of my Black Magician great aunts used to smash mirrors to get an ‘effect’ when doing some magic stuff.We never got to ask why and what for as we were all kids.But she was rich and well-settled.Makes sense.

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I find this extremely interesting. Would you say perhaps that demons tend to align with increasing entropy whereas angels/the Clockwork mechanism you describe elsewhere align with decreasing it?

So mark the occasion on the time that we perform the ritual, or at the time we need this done by?

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This would be called negentropy, interesting because demons are mostly associated with the neg.

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The time we need it done by, for example place a beer overnight, sealed, on their altar, with the intent “I shall pour this out at sunset Thursday and need tmy result by then please” then they can link tyo it.

Don’t really have an opinion on entropy and demons, it’s a natural process though so intrinsically clockwork in nature.

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Bumping as the new moon is in a few days and the harvest moon being later this month if i’m remembering right.

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