The guy , who clearly has decades of experience makes an interesting point which came as big revelation to me.
In short he describes the Goetic energies as being akin to electricity. You wire something up, switch ON and BAM!! it’s on (without any regard for other people’s welfare). Hence you have to put conditions on the intent beforehand and tell the esteemed King or Duke of Hell etc not to harm anyone or wreak havoc.
For example , some Goetic practitioner finishes journalist- college and runs headlong into wanting a big scoop to enhance their career. They evoke a Demon and do the work. Now the appropriate Demon could e.g. somehow make the local football team start doing really well and that would make big story to cover or it could cause a big disaster whereby the local hospital burns down and hundreds of law-abiding patients are killed. Now, which is easier to give our journalist the scoop? The Demon works according to looking for the path of least resistance just like the blind-force of electricity so it’s obvious which path it will take.
Could the restraints be done with Enochian Demons also? Can you tell it beforehand to ‘Make this happen but be nice to everyone’?
Oh hell yeah. Worst case is Andras, who is written and by my experience it’s true, will try to kill the practitioner that calls him: you want to nip that in the bud, as even with good protections if you don’t you will have bad luck, accidents, your pets will get hurt, it turns into a shitshow.
When you call an entity you get all of them and you put that through the lens of your intention, so you want to make sure your intention is very clear and complete.
I’m not aware of Enochian “demons”, only the Enochian Angels… @DarkestKnight would know. But that’s a different system and nothing to do with the Goetia.
Yes. Wishy washy intent makes for wishy washy results, Be VERY clear on what you want.
The Enochian cacodemons are not the same as the Goetia, and do not require restraints. They are generally not dealt with separate from the Elemental Seniors so the system already has built in overseers, so to speak.
It may not be your path but apparently if you want to curb any chaos when working with Goetic Demons then you bind the Demon with the appropriate associated Shem Angel which will basically be it’s Master.
Yes a Enochian and Goetia, different system. Yes this was a revelation to me but there are Elemental Demons and Angels in Enochian. Makes sense in terms of what they can do and how they do it.
I’m aware of that, but it’s a persona “me” thing that I find the idea offensive, it’s disrespectful to myself as a living god, as it’s implying I can’t handle this on my own… If I can’t manage to work with an entity off my own back, I frankly just don’t have the wherewithall to work with that entity and I have to “get good” and fix that.
I assume you mean Corwin Hargrove. Damon Brand’s Enochian Success Magick does not involve the cacodemons (in the Enochian literature the demons are referred to as cacodemons so that’s what I call them. it helps differential them from other demonic beings).
I get the thought, but from my viewpoint why the hell would you?
You have enough dominion over any chaotic force or entity if you call them with your own force and voice of authority (and are naturally more attuned to the darker, more chaotic energies). Why even call on them if you are not interested in the intiatory chaotic forces that can guide you on the crooked path to wisdom? I’m sure there are lighter gods and angels that can get you paid and laid as well.
And I am not angrily spewing stuff, but genuinly curiously asking as someone that is very much naturally attuned to the darker and more chaotic energies.
Yeah it’s not my cup of tea, either. The best explanation I heard that made sense, although not convincing me to do it this way, was from the author Stephen Skinner when he did an interview on Glitch Bottle. Something about that’s what they actually want and respect - best to hear him speak for himself…
I think it was probably this one, good info regardless of preferences:
They have a ton of cool interviews with this adept:
Thank you for sharing this!
It wouldn’t surprise anyone that I have different experiences with not binding cthonic entities. But I am also nowhere near as experienced as dr. Skinner. He brings up some other pretty good and interesting points. Might listen to more of this ^^
…because if you don’t use the Shem Angel then the Demon (which is like a wild beast and doesn’t care a hoot about your well -being or your loved ones’ well -being) can wreak havoc and be unpredictable in a way that you wouldn’t want? That is, I’m not moralizing but why would you want to heap even more problems on top of all of your other unresolved problems?
Thank you for sharing!! I’ll definitely watch it later today when I can. I’m familiar with his take on the Thoth deck and like the little I know of his take on gnosticism and hermeticism. So even if this doesn’t answer my question entirely, I’m sure I’ll enjoy the watch anyway^^.
Update; i invoked a Shem Angel, it was pretty powerful. Anyway, why would I use a Shem Angel when working with a Goetic Demon? Protection mainly. My reasoning is if i am an electrician i want insulation in my pipework. I want to earth the current also. If i am working with a wild beast, i want to use a muzzle. I’m still working with intiatory chaotic forces that can guide you on the crooked path to wisdom but I’m more in control.
I remember the time when I called a powerful demon it wasn’t Andras but it was another super powerful and dangerous Demon for the inexperienced and at that time I was painfully new… I think it was pure luck because the demon did not turn against me and by the next week my target was severely attacked, he could barely move
