There are the three or four qualities according to the original eBook, which puts us aside from the general crowd who practice none occult practices.
So, between the RHP (mostly mystics down the road) and the LHP (Living Godsdesses), there is a reality check (No show glamour from Harry Potter, Lucifer, etc) we need to impose upon ourselves.
Soul Travel is wonderful, but what can be proved regarding it?
Evocation seems to be key but we can fall in the trap of relying too much on spirits.
Black magick is much more than cursing and getting laid.
Divination is largely subjective.
Not trying to dash dreams, but what can we prove from our practices?
I wouldn’t go that far. ALL humans are magick. Our own magick often fails because of not taking this into account. From having natural protections to ancestors and guides, to using techniques that are magick but they just don’t call it that, the whole universe is magick.
We look to learn and practice magick with intent, and sometimes put more effort into it. But a dude on his knees praying for 2 hours for his mom to get better probably does more than most of us (definitely me) in a week, so don’t get on any high horses here, that’s not realistic.
You can’t judge a system by the system designed to belittle and cut you off from it.
The physical represents less than 1% of the known universe, science itself tells us this - just look at what a tiny part of the EM spectrum is “visible light” - so how are you supposed to use such a limited model to “prove” things that that mode; can’t include?
Everything you look at and touch is just empty space. If an atom was a football field, the nucleus us the size of a dime in the middle. What you “feel” is the strength of the forces pushing those atoms apart.
But you can’t see atom yet someone told you they exist and you believe that just fine? But why, have no personal proof? Same argument.
And yet magick gets you direct results in your life and you can see that proof for yourself, and what - because someone on TV didn’t tell you it’s true you’re not going to believe it?
Science is NOT truth and doesn’t claim to be (except by laymen on the media who treat it like a religion). All it does is give you “models” on which to predict results. If the model is good, it predicts outcomes well and we keep it. If it fails we get another model. Each model operate only under VERY specific assumptions called a framework. In situations where the assumptions don’t apply, neither does the model. Never forget that. Magick isn’t covered by modern scientific models.
Maths, physics, chemistry, biology, alchemy and magick all used to be considered under the same umbrella only a few hundred years ago. John Dee was a mathematician, for example.
I don’t follow you.. “LHP” adherents can be mystics too, RHP can ascend gain Siddhis and become gods. Most of us are in between - the grey or middle path - and don’t box ourselves in to such labels. Labels are there to help you communicate, but you are using them to confine your thinking.
Define “good”. Imo knowledge is the precursor to wisdom. The wise application of knowledge is power. “Oh I know enough now.” - said nobody, ever.
Define “spirits” and… How so? Can you elaborate on what issues you’ve had with evoking where you think you’re have done better with a different approach?
You’re making a lot of assumptive and sweeping judgements that are very western-oriented when life and the world of magick and ascent is much more complex than this. Some people don’t even believe in spirits as external beings and evoke them as aspects of themselves, some only do witchcraft without spirits, some only meditate for 20 years, some only work with guides, and all of these get results.
Imo, it’s not the method that matters, it;s what you bring to it and your intention that does. There is no trap, there is only you and your intellect and how you apply yourself.
Indeed. I would help here if you define what “black magick” means to you then. You do you, but this conversation has been had many times on this forum, here’s a pretty simple and succinct version:
Yes and no. It should not be. The impressions from your subconscious are not subjective at all. But they are highly symbolic and the conscious mind has a hard time understanding it. The conscious mind interpretation of the subconscious impression gets very subjective, and often wrong.
I have a mention here about this where Controlled Remote Viewers (CRV) have proceduralized ways to interrupt yourself when your conscious mind inserts bullshit into your interpretation process. I think any mage would benefit from studying controlled remote viewing techniques.
A mage wold call Remote viewing divination. But remote viewing finds missing people and is used by law enforcement to save people’s lives. CRV was developed by the military. The Gateway Experience Tapes now available for people to learn OBE with were developed by the CIA. The military and intelligence agencies do not dabble in the subjective that much. They experiment. When people will leave no stone unturned to get a good outcome, “magick” under another name gets used to help.
TL;DR - magick and physics are the same thing. Everything is energy.
I’m going to give you the same answer all skeptics get, that Lady Eva formulated in the Getting Started Guide many years ago:
Now you are being sincere and said nothing like “pics or it didn’t happen”, but it’s important to recall that the purpose of this forum is to discuss practical magick and spirituality, not spend time trying to evangelize for it. You must believe what you will.
And a very important caution here, that our magick is ours and we are under zero obligation to prove ourselves to you. Our magick is between us and our own conscience.
Well, there were published, peer-reviewed experiments done at Duke University that showed beyond statistical certainty that consciousness is non-local and can affect the external environment so…
I agree to an extent. There is too much emphasis on kowtowing down to spirits in the modern occult rather than making the effort to learn to do it for yourself.
Yes, it is because the information is often filtered by personal biases and subconscious beliefs before being interpreted by the conscious mind.
Magick is magick and the only difference between black and white is the intent behind it. Selfishness and cruelty are often just as much a part of so-called white magick as they are of black magick and generosity and compassion can also be part of both. It really comes down to how a practice is approached by the individual as we are all human. Some RHP mages are self-righteous asshats, for example, and some LHP mages are nothing but narcissistic psychopaths who delight in causing pain and misery to anyone who looks at them funny. It’s all very human.
I guess most of what I typed was personal projection, and unfortunately not astral projection (slight joke).
It seems that there are some good posts … a lot in the New Mage tutorials section, for example, another is the scans, and some authors such as you two, EA, Timothy, Conner, etc.
Oddly enough, I’ve done no evocations though I tried, especially with the “Evocation Keys” where senses are utilized at once in order to summon a Spirit, summon fae through Gaelic language and charms, summon spirits through petitions.
Soul travel is my bane. Except for time travel, via willing a bus to be late to my stop, when it would have been impossible for me to catch it otherwise.
You two have made so many good points that I will need some time to digest them mentally.
