Interesting, appreciate the time! 
Bumpski for #4? 
1 Like
That is a tricky one.
I have had (truly mindbending) evidence to convince me that we do “make a plan” before incarnating. Which, if that is the case, would suggest that we do have a role in the person that we are right now.
Ironically, I’m on the fence when it comes to reincarnation. But this could be due to my gnosis in regards to Time and what that means. Even if we do reincarnate, it should just be “incarnate” because it’s all happening at the same time anyway…
1 Like
Well, @Nyxifer managed to exercise brevity and say basically the same thing that I did…
1 Like
Okay in the spirit of purely debate, sorry, you’re all copping out, this is covered in the Kybalion where yes, all is (in) Mind, and you could equally say Parashiva or the hands of god… I wish someone would say why they think spirits are (uniquely) created and explain it in a way that doesn’t go the route of “oh but yeah I mean nothing’s really real anyway because we all come from the same source.”
Because that makes the statements about spirits being aspects of us, the mass subconscious, etc, meaningless - it truly does,
Why bother stating it if you think everything else is aspects of you as well, by which I mean, what’s different about spirits?
See what I’m saying? not trying to come across as pissed, just utterly frustrated at the MANY people who state this like it’s revolutionary, but then just really believe the same thing as the rest of us! 
Of course spirits are different to different people, so are we - if you’re not different talking to your dog than to your boss, and don’t also act differently and give them different treatment, well good luck with that!
Less of a rant than it sounds but I MARRIED someone who believes this, and I really just find the inconsistancy and constantly shifting goalposts comedic! 
And STILL no-one’s answered my 4 questions! 
Apart from you @levilevi, at least you gave #4 a good shot! 
2 Likes
Let’s make it slightly more complicated…you know, for fun:
I believe that many of the base concepts/entities pre-exist the human race. For example, the primordial abyss, our lovely Tiamat.
So how does one resolve that? Well, like my homie Neil DeGrasse Tyson says, “we’re all made of star stuff”. I think that the embedded knowledge goes further back than our current physical existence. It’s all in there.
Of course. We don’t know their minds or thoughts. Well, most of us.
Oh yes indeed. Especially since they dont have all the bs preprogramming we do.
They fed energy to whatever gods or demons or whatever they believed in, just as we do today. Hell we may even tap into those very beings today.
No, I don’t. Their personalities react to our expectations and preconceived notions. Kinda like if you think I’m an asshole and act as such, I will respond to the stimuli I am given.
Unless my brain is the source, which isnt my current belief, then no I dont believe we created them. They were here before us (in our current forms) and will be here long after. They may be beings like us who have ascended as we wish to do, or they may be a different type of being entirely, I’m not the one to say.
I think this is like arguing siblings dont exist because they came from the same mother. Know what I mean?
These beings may reflect us in certain regards but are not us. I am not my mother any more than I am Tiamat.
2 Likes
Here’s what I found, ranging in denseness and complexity:
-
ONE consciousness, projects out in to shards – this “likes” more life which means complexity, difference of form (not “one world, one unified” anything in fact, wants to be flowers and bunnies and boxers and goats), so it then holds in its Mind/manifests:
-
various sublevls that are abstract concepts
-
start of bigger themes, some of which are more like sentient beings, some of which are archetypes
-
(some) gods, angels and stuff, in purest form uncontaminated by human belief/perception
-
(some other) gods and beings who have power and no physical form in our reality
-
some spirits that in habits tree, crytals, nature, bugs, etc
-
DNA in big islands that appears to act as a lens for some of these and also has its own agendas and so on
-
Us and animals
We have the unique ability to manipulate this realm, and some humans are capable of being as one with the ONE consciousness named above, so that we feel the world fall “inside our heads” (though not just “head”) and events in our minds start to manifest in an almost cartoonish manner.
So to me, saying that the category “(some other) gods and beings who have power and no physical form in our reality” is uniquely either of the Minbd, or of our mind, is what I find weird. 
I’m not looking to resolve it, been there, done that, parsed the Divine Paradox - what i am looking for is why a person would consider a demon (for example) to be “part of themselves” and yet not the person they sic it onto, or the situation in life they think they are in.
1 Like
^ That nails why I find the statement “spirits are a part of us in the end” always seems to slide away when poked! 
1 Like
This is your “blowing one’s nose” theory. Sure, all connected but sometimes you gotta take out the garbage.
Operative word: think. It’s all illusion and can be changed.
As to why one would consider a demon part of themselves as opposed to its own creature…
- Even if that isn’t the case (for sake of argument), if the Magician believes it is, then it is a hell of a lot easier for them to stay in control. Power through hubris!
- For the same reason they’d consider you, and strangers, and the computer desk, and the entire cosmos part of themselves.
1 Like
Lol yep. Did I bring up the points you wished for in a debate?
2 Likes
I love this thread.
1 Like
Because you are a part of me of course! 
My point to give a credible use case is this:
-
person wants to evoke really scary hell demon to kill let’s say very very bad bass person
-
person worries “Is scary hell demon safe to call pls?”
-
people reply saying “Scary hell demon is aspect of you, go get that bastard!”
-
why is scary hell demon that has rep for fucking up humans seen as (almost) wholly-owned subsidiary of querent, and yet nasty mean boss is not?
^ That is obviously finally the Divine Paradox that fucks people up, and to anyone reading this, this is the definition:
This is discussed in the Kybalion as the Divine Paradox: the infinite All witnesses the universe as a dream; the finite (us) witnesses the universe as real. To think as God is to be in a state of detached “mountain-top consciousness” which is incompatible with everyday life and everyday consciousness with desires, hopes, etc.
The universe is; and is not - these two poles of truth are the Absolute and the Relative - and half-truths, such as when new-agers play “blame the victim” towards someone who’s manifested an illness, are a trap for feeble minds.
This seeming paradox regarding what is, and is not real, is an aspect of the Principle of Polarity described in the Kybalion.
This is why the RHP argument “Everything is as it should be/is according to God’s will” is a cop-out, because what’s right for God/the All/Source is a different thing to what matters to us, the finite differentiated beings who have to deal with it at ground-level.
I guess one thing I would therefore do is advise the would-be summoner of scary hell demon to evoke omnipotence, however I am not always sure simply telling people “fake it til you make it” alone will get them in the state where the world falls inside their heads and scary hell demon becomes the tissue into which they blow their nose. 
1 Like
This, to me, is like asking someone like myself (who hunts big predators such as bears and cougars) “Is it safe to go hunt a grizzly?” What is your definition of safe? If you’re acting like an idiot and are scared and jumpy, no (to both the grizzly and scury hell demonz). But if you know your prey or the being you wish to e/invoke then yes, because you will know “if I do this then X will respond with y”. But, part of that is experience. You aren’t going to hunt a bear if you’ve never touched a gun. You work your way up and learn to think like them.
1 Like
As an addendum:
I realize that a lot of my philosophy sounds like RHP Unity crapola. That’s because they’re partly right. Everything absolutely is connected and part of a greater, living thing.
However.
I have been to the end of the Universe (which is also the beginning). I’ve entered the singularity and I’ve witnessed the thing called Unity. And I wanted no part of that shit. No hive mind for me for the remainder of existence, thanks. Hahaha! That’s actually the very experience that made me veer off to the Left.
Theogenesis is real and attainable. And it does not conflict with the concept that all is one. It’s simply making a choice to be the machine, rather than a cog within it.
(slightly off topic but related)
1 Like
This is the same as what happens when the Magician summons something, expecting it to be a bitch, and then it is. While another Magician summons the same thing, expecting it to be cool, and it is…
1 Like
2 Likes
Exactly. Except the asshole is the Magician, technically.
1 Like
Lol yep. Like I said, if you expect me to act like a cunt, dont be surprised when thats what you get. I know how I feel when someone labels me and throws me into a category before ever interacting with me. I can only imagine how they feel.
1 Like
I think we have morepower over our universe thanwe realize.
2 Likes
Agreed!
Agreed! 
The reason I think the RHP and the “one world, one god, one mind” thing is SO deadly is because it’s plain that the All/Source/whatever you want to call it has explicitly gone out of its way to split into as many diverse and different forms as possible, so trying to return to that unity in any way is like a damaged fetus that can’t be birthed safely, so gets reabsorbed into its mother.
This is why I think all aspects of the RHP as a goal are meta-suicide, I mean yeah write this off as UPG but it happened before I formed strong ideas, and was actually the origin of some of them: Time Travel, Aliens, And That Damned Reflection
3 Likes