Afraid to reach out again. Are Goetia malicious or peaceful?

I agree they are rebellious and chaotic, not necessarily evil.

If a magician respects them and shoes them some understanding and empathy it goes a very long way towards making an actual friend of a Goetic spirit.

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I know there are those who will disagree with me, but my experience has been you can’t really make “friends” with them. Since their nature is chaotic, they’re not really capable of being friends. However, they are capable, somewhat, of respect, but that must be earned.

The smaller spirits (something like minions, the ones who have a thing about haunting people and feeding on their fear), are closer to animals. The more ancient spirits such as Azazel, Belial, etc. are highly intelligent and will work with you if given a reason to.

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I understand what you’re saying but while the concept of friendship that we understand may not be possible for them, an alliance that’s mutually beneficial is something they understand and respect.

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Yes. The key phrase here is “mutually beneficial.” :grin:

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To be fair, whether they are demons or not has nothing to do with whether they are malicious or not. Angels have the potential to be malicious, etc too.

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I’m not really surprised. Orlee told me that the Tunnels of Set deal with basically (her words), the shit of humanity. So you essentially summoned all the spirits to do with all the Tunnels in one night - but then all the “shit” within you rose up for you to deal with. Of course your life got extremely chaotic - it’s purely a vibrational thing - the “shit” is very low vibrational, and if not properly dealt with, it will manifest into your physical life as chaos, misery, accidents, etc. Nothing to do with the demons involved, they weren’t trying to trip you up - they just did what you told them to do. Can I ask, what did you do, if anything to deal with the internal stuff that came up to be dealt with?

Yes, depending on YOU, primarily.

You can certainly influence what you get by making sure you’re not fearful, or telling squirrelly stories about them. Belial is a classic example. A couple of years ago, I kept coming across horror stories about Belial, which came from uninformed people. I felt in my heart that most of it was fear-based BS which stemmed from ignorance. So I felt around for the truth. I told myself that story, then I summoned Belial, confident that I would enjoy our relationship. It’s been wonderful since. :wink: Never had any problems whatsoever. I did exactly the same thing with every feared spirit / deity I’ve come across since. Never had any problems. Your expectations, beliefs, stories, etc really matter.

I feel like your sadness might be what is causing a problem with communication. They’re always happy to help you with your problems, but you have to allow yourself to let go of the problems and start embracing the solutions, and anything else that brings you happiness. Have you tried healing your sadness or the cause of it? Simple daily meditation will really help you lift yourself up, and if you stick with it long enough, you’ll find wisdom coming from within, and if you act on that wisdom, you’ll find yourself lifting up from the sadness, and you’ll find solutions to your problems coming quicker and more easily. 15 minutes a day is enough. Most spirits aren’t found in sadness, so raising your vibration through practices like meditation, energy work, and grounding really is essential if you want to be able to open the door to the Divine instead of dealing with parasites, tricksters, etc. So be mindful of that.

The problem here is that now you’ve made it seem like these demons are out to give a hard time to someone who fears them - if anything they will feel compassion, but it will not come across that way to the fearful sorcerer. :wink: The universe only responds to your vibration (thoughts and emotion), and it will reflect back to you within your reality the essence of what you think and feel in so many different ways. It’s easy to forget that spirits are an inherent part of the universe. Ime demons aren’t interested in giving you a hard time because you’re only dabbling. If anything, they’d laugh at you and give you what you want - assuming you’re not blocking yourself because you harbour fear, for example. :wink:

I want to add to this that there’s a section in this book that really gives valuable insight into the dangers of mind control and love magick - Asmodeus: The Lord Of Lust, Compendium 8 | Nine Demonic Gatekeepers

I can’t say that is my experience. I refer to them as allies. Belial, for example, ime is business-like but he is also compassionate and caring. But I always refer to him as being a solid ally because that is what he is to me. It’s the same with Santa Muerte. She is chaotic, because she is Death. Death is chaotic. But she is a rock solid ally to me. Both of them are chaotic, but they are very stable within what they are, that is to say, they are consistent. We are also embodiments of chaos and order, yet we can make friends with each other. So, the nature of the relationships we have with ourselves, each other, and the spirits we work with is not defined by chaos and order. We can make friends with someone who is chaotic, and we can do the same with those of us who are orderly or stable, and those of us who live a mix of the two. Spirits are not, in essence, any different - we are, after all, spirits having a human experience. We’re Source in human bodies. The gods and deities we work with are Source Energy / Consciousness / Intelligence, who just happen to not be inhabiting human bodies, yet we emanate from the same thing.

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:point_up_2: This is very true. The Angels can be very hostile and aggressive.

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I said what I said because I have had spirits attach themselves to me in very unpleasant ways. They encouraged self-harm while providing some manifestations which I get as side-effects from summoning other spirits. The energy was sort of slimy and gross. Some interesting things happened, as tends to be the case in investigations into corruption, but there was not the long-term personality transformation that tends to just happen with spirits that I prefer to summon.

I believe that if you summon spirits of a particular group often enough, you will take on their powers and qualities, or perhaps here I should say that you will become like them, in the sense of how the spirits manifest themselves in the world and in how they interact with you. If you’ve summoned Demon Kings enough, this should be apparent to you, and it should be clear when someone who claims to or presumably summons demons is not getting the same results.

I see people here cower in fear of the demons all the damn time. It does not seem to me like they are experiencing demonic power in a particularly effective way. I understand that different people have different goals and desires with different things, but you’d think getting the life you want with demon magick would be a reasonably appealing proposition. And yet, it does not seem to me like many who are active here have built their temples and thus enjoy the fruits of a life where demons manifest the pleasures that this material world has to offer while removing a great many of its limitations and undesirabilities.

No, I see a great many walking, or perhaps I should say crawling upon paths towards some place they do not know and cannot see, life sending hostiles at them from all directions, random things exploding, and what they do not realize is that demons could have gotten them onto a different path waaaaaay back before any of that was happening.

I am a big proponent of long-term magick, and I summon spirits that are capable of getting the job done.

It would please me to know that I do not sound like a condescending shitbag when I say this, as though I know something, you don’t, and I really want you to know that as I say it to you. I find those who believe themselves tough when punching about 66.6% below their weight-class to be off-putting as well as pathetic, not strong. Thankfully, as a being of chaos and infinity born into an active psychological combat zone, I had a great, great deal of corruption to feed upon and absorb, to churn within me, to let slide dripping out of my mouth, and from these materials I attained so much knowledge, so, so much knowledge. I can see now that I chose well.

Corruption, corruption, corruption, or perhaps these, what will it be?

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You don’t sound like a condescending shitbag. :slight_smile:

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Well it has soemthing to do with the demons involved, because summoning them caused and extreme amount of chaos. I guess Im just confused as to why someone would work with demons in this way, I really didnt see any benefits from the process my life just turned to shit, I guess you can say I’ll become stronger due to the chaos but overall it was unnecessary.

To deal with what happened I began to work with angels more and stopped doing stupid shit. I began to focus on myself.

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It’s not if they are malicious or peaceful, it’s whether their goldbricking asses will communicate with you.

Work on your clairsentience, clairvoyance and clairaudience.

The thing I’ve noticed about the goetia is, their frequency bandwidth is lower than humans, so they can only become what you observe them as, for example… when I was kid I always messed with my little brother, I always pranked him etc. because of the preconceived notion of demons being evil, they would manifest as aspects of myself I knew to be not so benevolent, they aren’t personalities in a sense, they are functions, they become whatever you observe them as, if you’re looking for the devil you will create that :joy: which is a whole another topic on shadow work for Religious folk

Do you do evocation to physical manifestation or is it more of a mental connection for you?

I guaranty you would have a very different opinion of them if you ever manage to evoke them physically. :wink:

My experience is that they are FAR more than one’s hidden personality traits. These are real beings, as real as you are. They can be seen, heard, felt, and conversed with, regardless of one’s belief system.

I think it’s a shame that so many are taught that these beings are all in your head. If one practices evocation magick, you quickly find out otherwise. :slight_smile:

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Well, based on the fairy tale character Satan, Jesus easily approached him.
He didn’t sit there and meditate and recite mantras. Nor did he evoke.

Regardless of my opinion, if it worked for you then reach out again.

Can you stop filling every thread with your butthurt story about how the world hates you?
This almost feels like preaching - which is forbidden.
No matter if you preach to follow Jesus or if you tell everybody that spirits don’t exist.

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Yes massah, I will just go in the corner and shut up cause you say so massah.

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Get sober.

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Reach out. If you had success with it then reach out again.