I’ve heard both sides and don’t know which is accurate.
My fear stems not from having no results, but rather having two scenarios where things took a turn from neutral to bad only after requesting aid. One improved the next day, and did a 180 right after. Someone that was talking to me daily for two months went from that to barely talking to me, and then not at all within several days.
I was going to try again or choose a different spirit, but I was lectured that making requests to spirits can “fuck up your life” if they don’t want to help you, they twist what you want, or they can give you things you don’t want or take things away just because you dared to ask them for help.
They made it seem like it was offensive to ask for things if you didn’t have their express permission to ask, that it can anger them that you dared to ask for something, and that this was common knowledge.
I can see asking for money in general, and losing your job for a new one. But I can’t see Goetia rubbing their hands together and having a friend or romantic interest turn on you because you asked to strengthen that bond and they resent you asking.
They don’t have to help, but I can’t wrap by brain around the idea that asking makes them punish you.
I’ve heard both sides and don’t know which is accurate.
They may not be related to what happened?
Malicious, peaceful. I don’t think either of the terms are correct. All in all, I think seeing the spirits (all of them) as individuals is always better. And, therefore, not thinking any group has X trait. To be honest the definition of what makes a demon go from blurry to nonexistent, so I don’t indulge too much in such questions.
Some of them may not like you, that’s truth, but I think they’ll let you know that in very clear terms is that case.
I would suggest you to use this period to get a grip in the finer details of your practice. For example, wording. Wording is important. Let’s use an example, shall we? X person haven’t seen a loved one in a while. X person is your friend. You make a wording so they’ll see each other next weekend. When Saturday comes… they do a videocall. You always meant to meet, but worded it as “see”. And they did see each other. But the wording fucked it up.
Now, I don’t know what method do you work with, but several books advise about cementing your workings with emotions and guide you through it, and if you don’t do it, start doing it. Some authors say that spirits only really understand emotions and struggle with language. Regardless if that’s correct or not, I’ve found that using emotions does not hurt the working.
I told you recently that your magick is improving and I think you’re seeing signals of improvement. Keep at it. Also, also, don’t forget to check up other pantheons. Goetic demons are very popular in the internet, but there is so much more to meet out there.
Mmmm I don’t know who you asked to or how you worded it. I’ll abstain from expressing my opinion about if they’re malicious or peaceful, as Rey said they are a group so I wouldn’t like to generalize. If it makes you feel better, I would say that, if as a group, they were malicious, there wouldn’t be so many people working with them and having good experiences, don’t you think? But I didn’t want to go to the “I had good results so they’re not malicious”, that wouldn’t help you, but to talk about:
Is it possible that you got what you asked for, but not what you wanted? I’ll explain: Imagine you asked Sallos for X person to feel a strong love for you, and to Dantalion to make them think that you’re the woman of their life. And maybe they do feel and they do think that now, thanks to the demons. But your person is the kind of person that’s scared of commitment, not ready for love, and if before they were talking with you every day because it was mild, now that they see themselves head over heels for you, they are running for the hills. I don’t know, it’s just an idea, not sure what you requested and how…
Very rarely. Not many spirits are going to do this. The worst you’ll usually get is a no. That been said it might happen if you caught a spirit on a bad day but not so severely unless maybe you’re asking to harm a magician they’re close to.
For the record I once got help from King Paimon with college. I pulled out of the spell because I was scared of demons and he did take back the results which made me work with spirits closer to myself. When I graduated, he appeared and was understanding and I am greatful to him for that semester. The Goetia aren’t bad hopefully my story helps you
Thank you. I am usually very careful with my wording and intent because I wanted to be very clear.
I’ve been using Winterfield for months, some Brand, but I’m absolutely open to other methods and suggestions from more advanced and experienced individuals.
Thank you! How did you reach the point where you can successfully communicate? Can I ask what methods you utilize?
Honestly it just happened one day. I feel the energy and hear the voice in my mind.
You might wanna try and see your natural psychic senses
To answer your question, No they are not inherently malicious or evil. It’s not a pleasant experience to be on thier bad sides though let me just say that.
No they wouldn’t punish you for simply reaching out and asking for help. Contrarily they want to be reached out to because they want to express thier power in our world, if we only ask the right way.
Thank you. I researched those I reached out to first, but it’s so hard to know what’s fact and what’s fiction. For example, I just read that one person said they got the opposite of what they wanted after reaching out to Asmodai.
I had a failed working with Zagan in regards to my job where a scenario like you suggested wasn’t probable. However.
With this scenario, I reached out to Sitri because I wasn’t looking for love or a relationship. It’s within the realm of possibility that the intensity increased and made them withdraw. Initially the intended became more aggressive the day after the request, and scaled back. They reached out within minutes of connecting to Sitri to refresh the request 4 days later, and nothing after the last.
I am considering reaching out again and wording it so that any concerns or worries are assuaged, but I have concerns about making it worse. I also considered, Lilith, Asmodai or another source instead, but I what I read about the latter, as well as my current fear of backfires makes me hesitate.
I’m unsure if I asked the right way, but the intent was there. Thank you for this. I went from disappointed that things got worse, to being wary that asking for help caused it.
To be frank I find it highly unlikely that you’re reaching out caused any trouble. They’re not like that. They’re Demonic Royalty, not monsters.
Just having courage to face your fears, a bold heart that will reach out to them for the change you desire and respect for them and thier strength is enough.
I don’t think you did anything wrong. I think you’re in a hard place because you aren’t able to communicate effectively with them yet and you may be having trouble making a solid psychic connection to the spirit when making your request. That’s what I’m inclined to think based on what you posted.
At no point do I think you offended or angered a Goetic spirit.
I would say, if you’re unsure or afraid now, don’t call them. Your own doubts could fuck up the magick. Or you could manifest exactly what you’re afraid of, and that has nothing to do with Goetics being malicious.
Why don’t you change your perspective a bit? Is there any other kind of spirit you feel more comfortable with? Have you ever worked with angels, as many people seem to have less doubts about their good intentions?
@Mars007 if you have Trouble communicating with Spirits maybe try this following method. I just got done with the first three and it was awesome.
If you haven’t gone through @Mike_Bee e-book, I would suggest doing to right away. It’s a literal gold mine and will do your magickal practice a world of good.
I would also go through Mike’s evocation thread to maybe refine your practices and probably find that sweet spot you’re looking for. I use this as a skeletal framework for my evocation process and then added my own elements to make it work for me. Evoke often, meditate everyday and sooner than later you’ll have success.
Whoever told you that, assuming you understood them correctly, is being seriously ignorant.
The Goetia are peaceful and will not punish you for going to them for help. If they were angered or offended, you’d soon be left without any doubt.
What I’m picking up on is your fear and that it possibly runs deeper than you think.
I strongly suggest that you work on your fear to eliminate it before attempting to work with the Goetia again.
To obtain the result you want, and keep it going, you have to have achieved alignment with the essence of your desire. So, if your desire was that this person talked to you, and you got aligned with the essence of that outcome (i.e. you felt good about it, you were clear in your mind and heart that you’d get what you want, etc) but then once you had it, you felt fear, or like you weren’t enough, or something low vibrational like that, then you hadn’t gotten enough vibrational momentum to prevent the result from doing a 180. Once you get the result, you cannot afford to allow yourself to fall out of alignment (e.g. you felt good but then you felt afraid that the person would stop talking to you, or you felt like you weren’t good enough, or you felt like you couldn’t believe you got what you wanted, etc). You’ve got to keep the alignment, you need to continue feeling good, and being clear about it. This isn’t the spirit’s job. It’s your work. Their work was to bring you what you asked for. The rest is up to you. I recommend reading the Abraham Hicks material for a thorough, yet easy way to understand how to control your vibration deliberately.
Not trying to be condescending or patronising. I know this is probably obvious, but in the middle of fear and confusion it can be easy to overlook.
Just because you wanted this person to talk to you, doesn’t necessarily mean this person was interested in talking to you. This isn’t the spirit’s responsibility, nor is it yours. If this is the case, it’s down to you to respect the other person and yourself by accepting their choice and moving on.
On the other hand, relationships take time and work. Maybe this parson has stuff going on that you don’t know about or maybe they need time to warm up to you.
None of this is the spirit’s fault or responsibility.
Lastly, you’re the Operator. These spirits will take you at your word and follow your command to the letter. Whether they have to or not does not come into it.
All entities from Goetia have the potential to be malicious. They are not labeled as demons over nothing.
Thank you so much. That’s very accurate; I do struggle to make a solid psychic connection, or to be able to communicate effectively. As such, I end up wondering what I’m doing wrong.
Thank you. I’ll try not to let other people get into my head. I don’t think I felt any hesitation until they said something.
I didn’t have any hesitation or fears, because this person and I have been texting for a while, and sexting for weeks. I was just happy that things were escalating, until all contact just dropped off out of nowhere. I’m not looking for a relationship here, so I reached out to Sitri.
I will readlllook into the material you suggested; is there a specific book? Thank you again!
I’m not afraid of them, I’m actually more wary of the angels. I just let worry that what the person said might be true creep in.
Thank you! I’m not sure exactly what the above means? I was using the angelic circle from Winterfields books.
If you make a pact with them, they will only maintain for so long. If you do not define a timeline it is up to them to decide how long to make it last. Also if you promised them something and didn’t pay they will act like any other loan shark out there and get it from you one way or the other. All of this depends on the demon although.