Hey guys, quick question. Is Samael the same being as Lucifer? I got my suspicions that’s why I’m asking.
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Not even slightly. Call them both and feel the difference.
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No.
Samael is a Judaic archangel who was turned into the Christian figure of Satan due to a misunderstanding of his role as head of the “satans,” a group of angels whose job it is to prove to God a soul doesn’t belong in heaven (think prosecuting attorneys).
The modern figure of Lucifer is an egregore created by Christians and Left-Hand occultists. The original Lucifer was a minor Greek god. He was the son of Aurora, the personification of the dawn and he was so minor a god, there are no stories about him.
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so that Lucifer is egregore as a created being, does that mean it works like a robot?
No. Egregores evolve so Lucifer acts like any other spirit. He was created a thousand years ago and is constantly being “updated” every time his story gets rewritten, especially with how prevalent he is in popular culture.
i mean he went from being a spoiled child with Daddy issues throwing a tantrum in his original creation story to a modern symbol of enlightenment and the empowerment of Man.
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Lucifer originall name is Lumiel or Lucible, one of the very powerful fallen angels, and yes he is the same Roman god as well but only because they make him(kinda), usually when humans create a myth about someone, that primal being has no way,Except to fill that artificial being with his energy,But don’t doubt him being very old, I have received this information from several magicians who works with him closely, and in my own experience with him he is very strong.And no, he is not Samael the archangel, for example Samael calls me my son, but Lucifer talks to me as a friend and teacher.sorry my bad english ha ha.
They are the same yes, don’t listen to the moderators, they have been incorrect on many occasions
Even Connor Kendall said Samael is a mask of Lucifer
They aren’t different aspects like that, it’s the same entity. Just maybe different functions, in the old world death masks were also referred to as functions. Nevertheless, they are the same soul, the same spirit, the same stream consciousness
I introduced a bunch of magicians to Enki and they all said that Enki told them the same thing, that he was lucifer and Samael.
Take it or leave it, but that’s the truth, there are many books and historians that point to the same fact
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This is not true in my experience.
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And don’t listen to @Alahimavatara. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about and has been incorrect on many occasions himself.
@Emeraldtablets If you really want to know, find out for yourself through your own experience. Don’t take anyone else’s word for it.
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Here all you are doing here is stating your opinion as if it was fact, which is a logical fallacy and the definition of “dogmatic”. If you want people to listen to you, give them room to make up their own minds, as people generally prefer to hear people out when they don’t feel railroaded.
There’s a difference between an opinion and fact, and I would argue, that as magick is personal, and UPG is UPG, and as noted several times, the wise refer only to themselves and their own UPG. The best teachers offer reasoned information then encourage people to make up their own minds.
In my personal experience, it’s not just that the lore is completely different, these being have very different energy signatures, which is the unique feeling an entity has that encompasses the entirety of their spirit.
I don’t know if I disagree with the venerable C. Kendall here because a “mask” is not the same thing as being another being, but this seems to be alluding to the conflation of Samael as a lead Satan, which is a title and many beings - including me - have worn that title. I don’t see why any being cannot act as a satan if they wanted to and had the skills, since it’s a job. But this OP is not about Satan so that’s not relevant.
And, for the record, my opinion here is as myself, Mulberry, not as “a moderator”. I’m just a student of the occult too and I could be wrong, I change my mind a fair amount as can be seen through my posts over the years on this forum, this is my current experience and estimation.
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Genesis of the Grail Kings by Lauren Gardner…
There’s your source, clearly you don’t know all, you need historical facts??? READ
Since you can’t channel it yourself
Ok you you don’t even have your own opinions, and you think others opinions are fact just because they’re in a book? These are not historical facts, they’re an interpretation of the documentation, and the consensus documentation has already been explained above by @DarkestKnight.
I suggest you agree to disagree as this is not adding to the discussion. You have a different opinion, it’s based on a thing you read, and UPG from a completely different entity that has nothing to do with these figures, and that is really the best you can say.
Please note: I did not personally attack you or even say you were wrong, I always say all are entitled to our own personal opinions and UPG. It would be ideal if you could allow us ours… but now we find it’s not even your own opinion?
So have you, or have you not, experienced the presence of these entities personally, and found them to feel like exactly the same person? You didn’t say… you said “Enki said so”, and made hand-waving argument on behalf of other unnamed people who aren’t here to verify.
If so, then I can understand your belief as it’s based on personal experience. I’m not sure why you continue to pick a fight about it, but I guess it’s good to have something to be passionate about. You’ve stated your opinion, that’s great, it stands as does mine. What’s the problem?
[Mod hat on]
Your unnecessarily belligerent post personally attacking me is removed as that’s against the rules. Please do not attack or insult people for their opinions, leaders and mods are members too and get the same consideration. If you could provide reasoned arguments, and hopefully a little more than “but that other guy said so”, then that is what we’re here for.
[Mod hat off]
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It’s frustrating when magicians can’t even find the power to answer basic questions about entities because they’re convinced everything that you can channel or experience is just UPG, and of course anyone who cites books they don’t like is just wrong.
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No Samael is more primordial than any other infernal
Cos he’s creator of everything that’s infernal🔥
Depends on which Samael talks about.
I have no experience on this myself, but I know that you can contact different entity according to the impression you have in your mind.
So you can go on and read about Samael, ask a question and other people who had read or experienced a different Samael will awnser.
Edit: I remember VK jehannum talking about two different beings with the name Samael. One of them is indeed a mask of Lucifer. But in the end of day you can all entities that are attracted by your impressions.
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Samael is my guardian angel and I have met with Lucifer before.
They are not the same being.
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All this time I thought lucifer was the fallen angel of the christians samael
My UPG is that Lucifer is Satan. Because there is an invocation prayer to Lucifer, I think the Acending Flame one, that summons you in Thaumiel, with Lucifer in the throne. My UPG also is that there is only 1 demon that rules Thaumiel. Because “as below so above”. Metatron rules keter which is only 1 Archangel.
So I’m thinking for example that Moloch/Satan (2 headed Dragon) is basically 1 demon and that that demon also is Lucifer. Or in other words Lucifer/Satan/Moloch Is the same.
The question I had about Samael is because I wanted to know if I’m then also will work with Lucifer.
Again UPG! But more then happy to hear your guys take on this.
I see a lot of anti-christian, abrahamic despising evil, little heretics debating abrahamic lore and specifics of religious doctrine…
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It’s not that simple and I think that’s a mischaracterization of the issue. The issue is that humans are incredibly complex and filtering the UPG using a conscious mind that is heavily influenced by only what it knows. As I’ve said many time, it’s not the subconscious impulses that are wrong, but that conscious mind insertion where it attempts to take control, identify everything as it’s designed to do and it’s usually wrong. You can’t interpret what you have no experience of, and that’s a problem, it’s why someone elses interpretation of the exact same impulses can be wildly different than your own, and not useful to you, so you can only rely on either a) your own system and maybe not then, least least as a human, or b) information verified by multiple people where the consistency provides lower risk of mistaken identity
There’s quite a good article about it here - note, nobody says UPG is wrong, it says trust yourself and be careful
https://www.llewellyn.com/blog/2018/01/the-problem-with-personal-gnosis/
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