You're Always Using Spirits

I alluded to this in another thread but wanted to flesh it out in its own topic.

Lucifer has been teaching me ways to use magick without tools.

One of the questions that has been on my mind has been, why would I use a spirit, vs. just using pure thought-based magick?

And something Lucifer told me the other day totally blew me away and changed my whole perspective.

So first I should mention that in my own belief/experience, spirits—whether demons, angels, elements, gods, etc—are just streams of consciousness or energy. In the astral, individuality isn’t quite so defined as on the physical, so energy streams can easily merge, separate, and merge again in different configurations. This is what we commonly call “masks”—how one being or “stream of consciousness” can present itself to us with many different aspects, but all having the same essence.

So here is what I was shown:

In magick, we’re manipulating energies to our will.

In evocation, we’re summoning a spirit to do our will.

Basically the same thing.

Even in the law of attraction, our desires evoke certain streams of energy that resonate with that desire and which bring it to its completion.

Energy = consciousness, beings are streams of consciousness.

And therefore, when we do any sort of magick, or even intention setting/visualization/whatever, we are tapping into consciousnesses/beings that we just aren’t labeling, who are choosing to help us.

As Abraham-Hicks might say it, it’s all a co-creation.

It’s all evocation.

When we choose the energy stream/being/demon we want to work with, it’s just more deliberate. We’re calling out one particular stream out of an entire ocean of streams, and calling it forth to aid us.

But it’s all the same thing.

Just wanted to share :smiley:


Well said I don’t happen to agree but I like your explanation.

I hope others find it useful.


I don’t think there is any contradiction between what you stated and the idea of spirits as beings with certain traits etc. It’s all the same, and yet there is more to it than we can fully comprehend. I often feel like I am given, or I am able to grasp, certain aspects at one time only to find something that seemingly doesn’t quite fit into the picture at first glance, yet it somehow rings true nevertheless. Spirits are intelligent energy, and ultimately we are, too. Although not always as intelligent as we could be :joy:


There are two parts I don’t quite like about this explanation.

First is the idea that consciousness = energy, I’m not completely against it but I feel like an idea like that would need to be much more fleshed out to be supportable rather than being a mere throw-away reference. Especially since, as conscious beings we should be able to do exactly the same things as spirits do (and we often do exactly that).

The other is that all direct magic is actually unstructured evocation. In effect, that would mean that humans are completely powerless, that any time you try to affect your own body you are inviting a spirit to manipulate you, and on and on. In such a situation it would become pointless to engage in direct magic at all, because proper evocation would always provide a more repeatable set of results due to being able to understand the spirit’s likes and dislikes from previous experience.

Just as an aside, from questioning spirits in the past, I’ve found that they don’t really know what they’re talking about when it comes to the nature of the world or their place in it. Every one’s got their own ideas, often contradicting one another. It’d probably be like asking different humans with varying levels of education and understanding of pop-psychology to explain the nature of the human condition to an alien. We’ve all got our own ideas, some are wrong, some are stupid, all have more holes than swiss cheese. Spirits reflect humans in more ways than one, this just happens to be one of them.


@Zirnitra I agree but I am not going to go so far as to say he is wrong. If his explanation fuels his magickal system then who are we to say he is wrong. All we should say is that dosen’t work for me and my magick.


Cannot be destroyed, only transformed.

“If you want to find the secrets of the universe think in terms of energy, frequency, and vibration.” - Nikola Tesla

Checkout The Kybalion it is pretty awesome but explains the idea Mind = The All.


And what about our spirits? I don’t mean the Entities we work with, I mean our spirit. It is also a stream of consciousness/energy.

Even if there is an interconnection between all divinity, that doesn’t mean that all deities are the one and the same. We would end up with 1 god then, just like JCI or other monotheistic religions.

In our practices we use our “stream of energy” to manipulate our surroundings, in and out. Basically, we empower our energy to the levels that it will be able to change the stream of these other outer energies. So I can’t really support this theory as, in my opinion, each stream of energy is pefectly individual inside the union.


I think formal evocation is more work because you have to get to know the spirits preferences, specific vibrational frequency, etc, and attune yourself to it. But it can also be more powerful sometimes.

I wouldn’t say we’re inviting spirits to manipulate us. My view of the universe / the All is much more animistic—it’s a unity when we see it as such, and splits off into aspects when we need it to. Sort of like if you dip a bucket into the ocean, you’ve separated an aspect of the ocean as an individuated pool of water, but pour it back in and it all mixes together again.

It’s sort of like the wave vs. particle idea in quantum physics. If energy needs to be a wave, it’s a wave, and if it needs to be a particle (i.e., a particular spirit), then it becomes that particle. But if I’m doing magick and using energy, I’m treating it as a wave, and so it is, pure consciousness as such. But if I separate out an aspect of it, treat it as a particle, then that part forms itself according to its essence and which aspect I have called forth.

It’s sort of like something Koetting has said, just paraphrasing: basically that when we’re not working with the demons, they enter back into the formlessness of chaos, but when we call on them, we create them out of that chaos. that’s how I see it as well.


No, I’m not saying they don’t have specific aspects. I think they definitely do. I think my explanation above clarifies it a bit more, especially the wave/particle theory.


Absolutely, and that, too, is part of the “ocean” as it were.

No it’s not all the same. It’s a spectrum of consciousness, light and dark, yin and yang. Just as human beings have various aspects, sometimes quite contradictory ones, so consciousness as a whole has a whole myriad of various facets and aspects. Taken on their own, one aspect might be incompatible with another, I agree. But it all is part of a unity of consciousness in my view.

in my view it’s not force, like “empowering our energy” to be able to have the strength to overwhelm other energies—it’s more about intelligently applied force in the right place at the right time. I’m a big believer in the Tao, but that we can sort of “program” the Tao / the Flow to our own will, and then flow with it too our desired destination. Force will just result in greater opposition, though, which tends to fail.


I agree, you don’t really need tools at least for some situations. I am a beginner and have a little experience but have seen the same results with or without tools. Maybe it is based on the trust and belief you have in yourself…


We’re all streams of conciousness witnessing one another. That is the matrix, billions of witnesses cocreating a reality that befits all. I do believe this is the knowledge that was burned and buried for the elite to use for themselves.

“I’ve found that they don’t really know what they’re talking about when it comes to the nature of the world or their place in it.”

You must be talking to yourself, aend deluding yourself into thinking that you are talking to demons, like so many on here.

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Kind of my thought as well. I’ve received plenty of information in the past that I’ve later been able to verify for myself through other means.

I disagree with the idea that spirits are just streams of consciousness, but I do think that they’re connected to some sort of energy or frequency, either that or the energy or frequency comes from them. I have kind of toyed with the theory that spirits are there assisting us in magick (and in life, really) all the time, whether we invoke/evoke them or not. I guess the difference would be that in invocation/evocation, you’re calling on a specific spirit. But I do think it’s possible that when our desires and emotions toward something we want are strong enough, the spirits who line up with your energy or the frequency that you’re on, or maybe not even you, maybe they’re more tied to the energy of that desire…either way, I think it’s possible that they take notice and can make that happen, hence the law of attraction and stuff like that. I could be wrong. I’m not gonna lie, I haven’t studied it a lot or anything, but it’s one of a lot of theories I’ve just kind of ran through to myself.

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Hey OP, you’ve got it down pat! The difference between a spirit and an energy is the interface you use to observe them, since minds are just energies with internal characteristics and interfaces. Generally, though, the consciousness of the spirit has direct access to more of the energy you’d be trying to manipulate, so, ask people if they can teach you how to use or about themselves! :slight_smile:

Consciousness is the core of reality; would you rather take a piece of someone’s hair, or convince them to help you out if you want to see their skills in action? What would a hair do for you that the whole person couldn’t? Start putting those strings together, and you’ll hit new heights! :slight_smile:

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We have a different perspective than most on consciousness. As would be expected when 5 people share a body. We do not have any more energy than a single person.

What is your opinion of that?

Well, it’s complicated. I don’t believe consciousness resides in a body like the driver resides in a car. Actually I believe more that our body resides in our consciousness—that consciousness is primary, not matter, and therefore consciousness is what all reality is based upon. Matter is just a subset of this, existing within the web of consciousness. So the body is just a manifestation of our own focus of consciousness.

So when you say five people reside in the same body, that makes no logical sense to me. I’d see it more as five different streams of energy coming together to focus on one manifested body, but that shouldn’t really feel uncomfortable in the least.

When you say you have no more energy than a single person, energy can’t really be quantified like that. Like I said, it mixes and merges in the astral… it’s not really a countable thing. You can’t really count the number of spirits in the universe, for example. So, no, you wouldn’t feel anymore energy, because you’re basically describing how every person lives: as the manifestation of a series of different energetic influences.

Yep this is pretty much how I see it. :slight_smile:


@Melektoth as far as how it feels we really don’t remember much before it happened Eric was 3. Daniel remembers but won’t share. Been this way for 35 years.