Why Is The Sigil For Lucifer The Same As Satan?

This is a question that comes up quite often on here, and I hope this thread, which I’ve pinned for now, will be a good place to discuss the topic - and share sigils, opinions, and experiences working with them insofar as they relate to the two spirits seemingly sharing one seal.

What this is about, is that if you search online for “Sigil of Satan” you’ll probably find you get the same result as for “Sigil of Lucifer” – this symbol, in various forms:

The Joy Of Satan site lists the following as being acceptable sigils for either/both, since they seem to consider this the same being, but have suggested that if you wish to use different sigils, that you use the first for Satan;

And this for Lucifer:

(Although, they allocate the top sigil to Lucifer on this page, stating that it “represents the True GRAIL”.)

To further add to the confusion, some magicians state that they’re different masks, aspects, or personalities of the same being (or force, or current, or archetype) and other people insist they’re distinct and completely separate beings.

This thread isn’t here to try and offer a definitive answer, but to acknowledge that the issue exists (so that new magicians know they’re not somehow looking in the wrong places for sigils!) and also to open up a conversation about it.

Perhaps people who have an experience with these spirits, whether as distinctive and separate, or aspects of the same, could comment below with their experiences, and we could discover any common ground, or at least have a good overview of the complexity of the issue?

Also, if anyone has happened across the sigils above from another source, a grimoire or other reference that pre-dates JoS, please share that – or any similar information on this, on the history or prior use of either, including alternate sigils you have personally used, with success for either or both beings.

(Quick reminder to please keep things civil if meeting with a different viewpoint, this thread is for sharing and a “peer testing” kind of thing to share findings, and not about who has the best put-downs - there’s the entire rest of the internet for that kind of thing!)

Thank you! :slight_smile:

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Have you tried writing to jos on the sigil issue?

Good question, I was actually thinking of doing that, thanks for the reminder! :slight_smile:

I don’t work that much with either Lucifer or Satan right now, but it would be useful to add into this thread.

I’ll quickly share my experiences as a timeline, leaving out excess ramblings:

● met Lucifer via E.A.'s video Evocation Of Lucifer - Live Ritual which had imagery in it that’d I’d seen in a dream at least 5 months prior to the ritual actually being performed

● a spirit introducing themselves as a familiar of Lucifer’s, and whose seal is similar to the one at the very top of the OP, worked with me on some projects

● met the spirit of a relative of mine who ascended into demonic form after his death, Varnaxis - he had literally “sold his soul to Satan” as a very young boy

● when he introduced me to “his” Satan, the spirit was the same being as the god Set known in ancient Egypt, which Varnaxis also acknowledged. I’d read about that link before on here and mostly discounted the idea, because I don’t personally like to clump spirits together - mentioning this purely to clarify that it wasn’t something I’d been expecting

● came to see through some work that Lucifer and Satan/Set are aspects of the same being, kind of a chaotic “dark” force (Satan/Set) that gives rise to the isolate point of lucidity (Lucifer).

BUT I don’t personally have an agenda to push here, on the contrary I think it’s probably best to work with them both as seperate beings unless you have a good reason to believe otherwise, or unless you choose to work within the JoS system at least somewhat, so that you know the spirits/currents you’re working with are established beings.

This isn’t even a large part of my work, so I’m not an expert and NOT claiming that my UPG regarding this is any kind of definitive final word on the matter. It’s just my own findings to date.

Also, I’m not an adherent of JoS, I personally think they’re as close to being a dogmatic religion as the ones they claim to scorn, and I find all the blond Aryan demon stuff a bit strange, but some of their stuff works very well (then again, so do things from the Hindu religion, etc…) - they just happen to be one of the more prominent sources of ideas on the topic, and anyone researching online is almost bound to get their site show up in the results. :slight_smile:

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I mean I can give my experiences but it’d be me repeating everything I’ve said before on this forum when I first came here those few months ago, ahhh so hectic…

But I personally have had experience that seems to denote a difference

One vote each “side”… :o)

I actually need to evoke the two of them. This just reminded me of that

have we thought of just asking him/them him/them self/s?

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Go for it!

I figured this thread would be a place for people to post if/when they do, this isn’t a big interest of mine but was inspired by Nightingale’s posts in another thread. :slight_smile:

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Asking who

Lucifer himself. I’ll give it a go and see if I can get a result.

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What are the attributes of Lucifer and /or Satan? Why would one evoke them?

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Well why would one evoke a demon?

Yeah but each Demon specializes eg one in scientific learning, another in destruction etc. What do Satan and Lucifer do?

Well they teach more fields than that.
Gimme a sec to find an old post of mine

No I.mean each of the 72 Demonic Kings have their own specialized tasks, what about Lucifer and Satan?

They do have specializations, but they can also do more than that, at least some.

As for Lucifer he can teach: how to astral travel, how to change your astral body, how to activate your light and dark bodies, all forms of magick both light and dark, how to access your godform, how to ascend, he can give familiars (I’ve heard stories of him doing this but I’ve never experienced it myself), he can teach you how to protect yourself, how to break bad habits, how to see and hear spirits and much more
Satan can teach very similar things

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Ok cool, thanks.

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I tend to not search online for sigils for multiple reasons. One I know people who put sigils out there that draw on the power of others to serve them some purpose and will list on the website that its an angel or demon or whatever (basically something completely different just so people will use it). And second because just sesrching online for a spirits sigil etc is kinda tacky to begin with. In Quimbanda you actually channel the Pontos Riscados from the spirits similar to the way Bokors receive veves from specific aspects of a Lwa or frim that Lwa for a spirit dealing in whatever matter.

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Because there is always someone who has no background in History and was an easy con to believe that Lucifer is the same as Satan. So why not have them use the same sigil? have you examined the Dukante sigils ?

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Lucifer is a name and Satan is almost a verb. There are many, many Satans out there and including Lucifer, beings that brings about cosmic change. That is how I personally see ‘Satan’. Adversary to the static, stagnant energy of pushing creation forward. I’m not simply meaning people that change society, but can move the heavens themselves, even shuttering them if need be.

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