Over the last months, I had a couple of conversations with people who are also involved in magick. Many of them seem to be opposed to evoking spirits, regardless of their nature. Others, would see it as an assault to the spirit. What are your thoughts on that?
I’ve heard the same thing for years. Millions of excuses run around from the ever popular it’s too dangerous because of possession or the prospect of angering the spirit to the idea that it’s too difficult and the spirit might twist things around and enslave you or take your soul lol. There are also several grimoires that teach rituals of evocation that are considered abusive and bullyish to the spirits they conjure (threatening them with blasting rods or imprisoning them inside a specially consecrated box). In my opinion these things are misinformation spread about the art to keep people from practicing it. I’ve never had anything detrimental happen to me during an evocation so I’m firmly convinced that these are just people afraid of power who say these things.
Death anixeity, the one thing thats stops anyone from doing anything
Echoing Kitari here - I’m certainly no master magician, but I have evoked a number of times with no ill effects. Maybe I haven’t picked mean enough spirits, but they seemed perfectly content to share my company and make my acquaintance.
And to follow Soundwave’s train of thought, I think it is similar to the fears people have about astral projection. Until you’ve done it, it seems plausible that your soul could get lost or a spirit could inhabit your body while you’re away.
Because the illusion doesn’t like to be messed with, and since the birth of monotheism, and more recently science, the dominant ideologies infecting people’s minds have done everything they could to destroy the practice of magic and keep them imprisoned inside a steadily encroaching world of substanceless, law-bound concepts.
That runs exactly in the area I was being shown all last night…shown how we have all been conditioned to be victims in every part of our life so we are easy to control…and accepting being a victim means that we should look to be taken care of by the controllers…gov…and no need to look to magic for the answer as everything we are involved with is set up toward the victimization…and the only answer is what we see and experience every day like ads and media. This is taking place in every country every day…and if you look at it closely, this is how profit is made…by making you a victim and then selling you the product that is the answer to take care of the problem…the corporations are great at making you a victim in every part of your life…the new spirit that has begun showing me these things is great with these sections…
I will add that the viewing he showed me was the picture of being able to work with the spirit world to acquire all your needs from that source, like healing, manifesting your basic nessessities, etc, instead of looking to the orgaiization of this world dimension for any answers…so learning the ability to use magic in your life…for everything…is the end goal for us…and I suppose that is why we all have been drawn to this site…
[quote=“RedIce, post:1, topic:552”]Hey folks!
Over the last months, I had a couple of conversations with people who are also involved in magick. Many of them seem to be opposed to evoking spirits, regardless of their nature. Others, would see it as an assault to the spirit. What are your thoughts on that?[/quote]
I have been working on the BALG website and upcoming release of Mastering Divination for literally 168 hours straight, taking breaks only to sleep, eat, and fuck. (My dreadlocks are getting pretty filthy because I haven’t showered in several days LOL)
Despite that, and my complete dispassion toward participating on my own forum right now due to my exhaustion, I am going to respond to your post, because the utter stupidity of the points therein, actually piss me off enough to type up a logical counter-argument for all our mutual benefit.
Firstly, those aforementioned people may be “involved in magick”, but they are certainly not REAL magicians.
As we’ve now spelled out ad infinitum, here at Become A Living God, we believe there are 3 core magick skills and relative powers constituting a true sorcerer, or magician. Furthermore, the capabilities are synergistic, meaning, improving your proficiency at one, increases your overall competence at all of them:
- Divination: Omniscience
- Evocation: Omnipotence
- Soul travel: Omnipresence
This is similar to say, soccer, where there are 3 basic, prerequisite skills:
Talk to any professional player or coach, and they’ll tell you that you are NOT a complete soccer player unless you are actively practicing all 3 abilities.
For example, a so-called player who only runs, but can never dribble or kick is NOT a legitimate soccer player.
The same applies to sorcery (self-aggrandizing magick).
(To be clear, I’m not saying you need to be a MASTER of these 3 powers right now to be a proper mage, I’m stating that you need to at least acknowledge the ultimate and inevitable goal of acquiring a working competency and appreciation for these godlike abilities. In other words, you have as your supreme aim the obtaining of these powers)
In reference to the people whose sentiments you’ve relayed, I’m willing to bet serious money that they abstain from evocation, and hold those silly beliefs, for two reasons:
1. They suck at evocation, so instead of being humble and working hard to improve their incompetency, they rationalized their failure by concocting a fallacious argument that evocation is “wrong” because it exploits spirits.
Rationalizing failure protects their ego from facing their own inadequacy. As a result, they stunt their own growth, and prevent Godhood, by missing a core skill.
Incidentally, this is the same error that the self-imposed members of the lowest class - the poor class - of society often make (translation: communist hippies). Instead of being humble and pulling themselves up by the bootstraps, they absolutely claim that making money and capitalism is evil and diminish into a lifelong vocation of self-made poverty. (And alas, never contribute anything productive to the advancement of our species, thus becoming what they originally despised - parasites feeding off the economy)
2. They are ignorant, superstitious, and consequently, terrified. They are stuck inside the laughably obsolete paradigm that angels and demons are actual living beings, with real thoughts and feelings, and we allegedly “exploit” and abuse them through evocation, like slave drivers. (This paradigm is almost as ludicrous as the belief that spirits are parts of our physical brain - a materialistic theory that astral projection and soul travel debunk)
Several months ago, E.A. and I discussed this exact topic in extensive detail, and we both agreed on our shared conclusion that the angel/demon/god classes of evocable spirits are summarily forms of interactive software stored inside the computer hard drive of digital existence.
(A much-needed transition from the ancient superstitious-religious paradigm to the modern scientific-secular-technological paradigm)
They are artificial intelligence programs, in a sense.
They don’t “exist” in an objective manifest state until you boot/load/call up their presence. Exactly like a a website on the internet, it does not appear/exist/manifest on your computer screen until you visit the site through the protocol of a web browser (summing ritual).
And like a mobile app, or PC software, or website, these hard-coded spirits EXIST to SERVE US.
This totally debunks the ludicrous notion that we’re “exploiting” the spirits. It’s not like they are biological beings, with limited, physical, economic resources, and we’re exhausting their time and energy, taking them away from performing other productive activities.
This model also satisfactorily explains why thousands of magicians can evoke the same entity simultaneously and all get magick results… it clarifies why spirits are above temporal and geographic restrictions.
…Because, again, like a website, thousands of people can visit it at the same time, and it’ll still appear functionally on everyone’s computer screen.
So, to allege that summoning and contracting spirits is an “assault” on them, is tantamount to claiming that surfing the internet is an assault on websites.
It’s asinine, paranoid, obsolete, superstitious, and fallacious.
Wrapping up, not only do you NEED to perform evocation to be a well-rounded, fully operant magician… but if you abstain from it, you’re WASTING free gifts from the universe that exist solely to encourage and assist your own Ascent to Godhood.
In the end, those idiotic pseudo-magicians you quoted are opposed to evocation, because they are TERRIFIED of it, due to their own ignorance and incompetence.
And it’s pathetic.
Now, I’m going back to work on Mastering Divination, so it’s ready for all of you by Halloween.
...so learning the ability to use magic in your life.....for everything....is the end goal for us...
This is mine too. To live magically and be magical, as one naturally does and is in the other planes. I will go beyond mere soul travel and free my body too from the bonds of this world of make-believe. When my waking life is undifferentiated from an astral journey I will have reached the beginning of full godhood.
If there was only some way to draw Timothy out of his isolated shell…
I was thinking this recently when I watched the matrix reloaded, the asian guy neo fought with was a program from the machine world. Serving its purpose.
That’s actually a close metaphor.
Timothy, your computer metaphor above makes more sense to me than anything else so far. Its a paradigm I can at least understand. In BOA when Azazel was speaking of being brought into objective reality, I kind of got it but what you said sort of snaps it all in place.
A number of groups call the divide the causal vs. the acausal, with our normal perception being within the causal. They then direct much of their early training with helping one to think/perceive acausally. I think this is much the same thing.
I think this is an important point, no matter which explanation you use, it isn’t wrong per say, it is after all a metaphor to describe an element that is part of all creation. Its not that entities ARE a computer program, or a fragment of your subconscious or a form of individual life that exists on a different plane to humanity. Entities are all of those things and none of those things depending on the cultural milieu in which they were used.
When people askare entities real or isn’t spirit X just some egregore made up by the author or do you subscribe to the psychological or classic magick explanation of entites? I’m thinking that they need to put in a bit more work, dig a little deeper. All models for explanation have the pros and their cons in many diverse categories.
A model like the jungian based psychological one may have its merits in scientific intergration whilst the software model serves as well for functional application and then something like a traditional magick view of separate forms of life is valuable for its application in romance and art. It seems that people are against the sensationalisation of evocation but honestly why would I want to work in a system thats so cut and dry? It would be so boring
So if angels and demons are like computer software, would that make the operator the computer that runs the software?
Computer = existence
Software = spirits
Human user = magician
The real question is, how were the computer, software, and human created?
Computer = existence
Software = spirits
Human user = magician
The real question is, how were the computer, software, and human created?[/quote]
Nice model Timothy
well, At the stage I’m in Right now I will just use the computer
in Chinese philosophy there is no Creator, there is only emergence.
everything appeared out of it’s own accord out of nowhere.
it doesn’t make sense… but I like it that way, haha.