Well first of all, you didn’t made that clear anywhere in your thread. And second, I also speak with my spirits. If i do a spell for you, that’s all you get, it doesn’t mean that I also have or want to ask my spirits what you want. Unless I told you from the beginning that I will make a spell for you and ask my spirits something you want.
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This can be done on the astral plane, and it’s not much different from having a conversation with a human on the physical plane. You’ll know you aren’t dreaming or talking to yourself either, because you’ll be fully conscious with all of your senses, and they won’t always tell you what you wanted or expected to hear. They’ll sometimes reveal things that are unknown to me or say a few key words in languages that I’m not fluent in so that I can later look them up to verify that the conversation was real. This is just one of many ways to communicate with them, though; telepathy is another means that I use personally, since I value efficiency and prefer to waste as little time as possible. While I’ve never used automatic writing or candles, it seems to work for a lot of people.
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If you can achieve trance and work on your senses, you can start “seeing or conversing with demons”, however, that’s not the only way spirits can talk to you. Personally, I know that it’s possible to see and hear spirits clearly because I had a few encounters with spirits where that happened. I still haven’t been able to gain that sort of clarity with seeing spirits, but I have been able to hear spirits clearly through trance meditation. I think it’s always best to be honest about your abilities if you would like the same in return. I think that honesty helps people actually grow rather than believing in something that may lead you away from where you’d like to be
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I’ve paid for readings for people I assume have advanced medium/spirit summoning skills. Who know if it is the truth but it’s a great gift.
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People tend to exaggerate. Most lie to themselves to feel superior. Most can’t be objective. Most can’t be honest about things or can’t be like a logical detective/scientist kind of thinking. Too many get emotional and are blinded. You see it all the time in many new fields. It’s called desperation to use whatever new thing to fulfill some kind of void. People dont’ want to see what is reality in front of them.
Magick field tends to have more people lean toward crazy thinking leaving their brains outside the door. lol. Common sense questions and logic is your friend. So many people don’t use that as feedback for progress. They accept anything someone tells them cuz others are more experience or longer in the field. title nor length of time means little. only gullible people dont’ question such and accept easily what others tell them. They don’t take responsibility for their learning proper. You see so many cast spells without understanding. They believe a stranger easily online. Of course many do the same gullible behavior in real life and with other fields too. haha. they just aren’t great screeners of knowledge or screeners of people.
Often the gullible ones will dismiss logic and sensible suggestions as if it’s an attack because they want to hold on to the lie they fell for. They ask questions not to learn. They just want someone to validate their gullible behavior. No matter what answers someone gives , they dismiss it even if it’s true. They are just selective about others input and only take those that agree with them. That is not a great way to learn. Need to look at all views and be practical. why? cuz that’s what physical life is about. being practical to get results. Of course most are too emotional which lead them astray to exaggerate whatever more than it is.
Always test /validate/ and question. that’s how one knows truth for self.
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This is my case with my telepathy as you brought up a good point. When I’m focusing on my spirits and try understanding them in full conversation half the time are always iffy as hell. But when at the most random moments where I’m not expecting anything I can hear their voices pop up in my mind causing me to freak the hell out because I know it’s not something I would think about or say then I realize I just heard one of their voices. It just doesn’t happen as much when I actually want to have long conversations again on my end. I really think it has something to do with my excitement that gets in the way because during these moments I’m not being completely caught off guard obviously. It’s the same case with attempting to have a OBE. Either I sleep it away or the excitement gets in the way 
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I’m gifted with clairaudience and clairvoyance but prefer divination for clients because my ritual evocations are personal to me. No one’s entitled to anything more than what I offer.
People who exaggerate in general are either just trying to get attention, or trying to pull in clientele. However, communicating with a spirit doesn’t necessarily mean clairaudience, vocal conversation, or physical flesh and blood manifestation, and often communication and “seeing” may involve scrying the image of the demon through a mirror or fire. Perhaps not the truth you want or assumed, but the truth they’re selling.
Card divination and mirror scrying are perfectly valid forms of communication and “seeing,” especially for people who aren’t gifted in supernal senses or just don’t feel like sharing it with strangers. Sometimes, people may be able to “see” the demon in their mind’s eye when drawing cards for them. The visualization is their perception of the demon. You may not know the full story, but there are definitely people who do exaggerate their abilities and get sheepish when brought to light. At least those people are telling you what they offer is divination readings when you ask. People are very capable of just outright lying about having mediumship.
Good luck finding what you’re looking for.
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I meant physically sitting in front of you, as in with your psychic senses, you see them sitting in front of you in a somewhat physical form or during a drug trip, that a practitioner may physically see the demon, I understand how that could sound confusing though, with the way I typed it.
Of course spiritual contact won’t always be physical, but a lot of occultists, even people like V.K Jehannum (love him, just for the record) will speak about his experiences with spirits, as if it were identical to talking to a person, rather than saying “yeah I pulled some cards and the demons said this”.
I’m a detail oriented person, living in a world where people constantly miss out little details because they simply (unfortunately) don’t care to include them. I want to know all the 5 senses and the method of communication when a practitioner contacts a demon/angel/other kind of spirit.
I guess I’m saying, people leaving out details is annoying, because I want to know how exactlyother communicate with the spirits they work with, I want to know if certain demons respond better to others in certain ways etc…
Anyway I’m waffling, but I think I’ve cleared up what I meant now.
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Because its a job, a transaction, not an ego trip. Many Occultist after casting their first demon get really cocky, their ego and forget that we are always learning and growing. We’re all here for 2 things either to get things done or have things done. And if anyone is getting paid you do what the client wants not what the caster wants; the proper thing to is to inform the client about what the occultist thinks would work best or its more appropriate.
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I love how you said that when at the end it’s all about the money as we see below.
The client can’t ask things that the caster doesn’t sell, period.
When you go to a restaurant you look at the menu to order, you’re not asking for something they don’t sell because “waaaaa I pay!” Jesus, grow up… No one owes you anything.
After your last answer, I really don’t wanna have anything with your thread. I’ll see myself out.
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Hey, Norski,
I did PM you on March 31st (and then sent you a short note on April 4th on Discord).
If available, please just let me know.
I don’t bother to disclose my conversations with demons / fairies because it would creep too many people out. I probably will after I find a way to obfuscate my connection because I don’t want to answer questions from the thought police before I have a lot of people willing and able to cover for me.
Hear! Hear!
I was known as Doubting Thomas in my rhp Magickal Order.
Great post about a fabulous perspective.
Al.
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This has always been my ‘problem’. Although I’ve seen stuff it was long ago. I saw a headless spirit manifest in incense smoke. When the smoke got to shoulder height, it disappeared. Could see folds in the robe. Decades ago. Took too much effort. Been there. Done that.
Don’t hear anything either. I just know. The hairs on my arms stand to attention and I sweat heavily. There’s a mental thing but it’s not voices. I just do with what I can. You can’t have every gift.
Al.
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How would someone get to your level of skill with Goetia demons? Being able to physically see them and hear them clearly? Ive had simple conversations where they sound like my own thoughts but theyre not. And when i try to invocate my braind does feel like itll explode strangely enough.
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Sometimes they deliberately manifest that way even though they “can” manifest in other ways. I have a certain Belial familiar who always shows up without a head for some reason, I still haven’t been able to figure out. I guess I am missing something in my understanding.