Why can't Necromancy grant you Immortality?

Just seems logical that if you can learn to completely emerge yourself into the death current you’ll eventually become immune to it. Both biologically and physically. My only concern would be that you’d become like a space-time anomaly or something. lol

3 Likes

Dunno if it’s logical: you can completely immerse yourself in fire or water and not become totally immune, even if you slowly increased daily exposure.

Those things in large amounts don’t support life, same thing with death energies.

7 Likes

There’s a user on here that you should ask about that. His name is Smith http://becomealivinggod.com/forum/profile/Smith/ he and I share the same goal of immortality, he was telling me of a friend of his who is attempting to do the very same thing that you just described. Send him a PM, he will be able to explain it much better than I can.

3 Likes

[quote=“Lady Eva, post:2, topic:7103”]Dunno if it’s logical: you can completely immerse yourself in fire or water and not become totally immune, even if you slowly increased daily exposure.

Those things in large amounts don’t support life, same thing with death energies.[/quote]

  • { I post long comments btw so if anyone doesn’t like lengthy post then please excuse my reply and I’ll be on my way.}

That’s because those two aren’t in energetic form. One force, fire, is still a type of matter and so is your hand. The atoms within it are not vibrating fast enough to be labeled energy. They can only affect each other by their structure make ups so just burnt flesh and soggy nails.

However,

If we treat spiritual energy much the same way we view other forms of energy, like microwaves or gamma, they all react the same way just through different mediums. The same energetic body you feel during a invocation can be compare to the magnetism ‘felt’ (gravity, law of attraction, etc) by a piece of iron.

Human beings are walking transformers for outside energies. The Death Current, from what I’ve researched up on, is just the negative to Life Current’s positive.

Picture a spirit box. Take away all the names and identities of the things it can do and what does the device actually do? It’s a mechanical medium used to pick up a certain type of energy not able to be received into the medium of the human consciousness construct.

One is matter and one is energy.

This is just my theory, but if one is able to exchange, let’s say, a portion of one’s soul to Death Current essence, from a biological stand point one should be able to build at least some kind of resistance to that variation of energy. Build this up over time and Life and Death won’t be able to apply to your existence.

I believe it is Dante who said he started to get all kinds of medical issues from dealing with the dead for so long. Too much, too fast for organic life to maintain. However, if we can develop means to weakened the gravity of dead upon the living then balance will eventually be maintained in a kind of undead equilibrium. In theory lol.

1 Like

Very well. I’ll get right on it.

True, but the belief seems to be that too much death energy acts on the energetic structure of the person, thereby weakening them physically, but only as an end result.

I don’t know… I’ve done a LOT of psychopomp work, and that develops strength and power like nothing else in my experience, but it’s often taken up by what in the past would have been called “lusty” people - sense of humour, sexual, curvy (if they’re women), like to have fun.

I know the pale frail fainting type is often used on movies to portray mediums, but in my experience they’re the ones who recoil in horror at real contact with the dead.

And another thing, I’ve been told several times that you mustn’t be sexual with deceased shades, well I had a relationship with one for several months and it had no ill effects, he used to draw energy from me but I already knew how to backfill that, so it wasn’t a problem.

If you’re energetically whole/can effectively cleanse and flush any major spiritual wounds/wounds in your energy body - if you can draw down or backfill energy from Source or something - if you don’t seem like the type to faint easily, and have a lot of physical engagement with the world, then I think it’s possible to learn to flush out anything negative from prolonged contact with death energies.

I’m not sure how this relates to the subject of immortality, but possibly being able to command that vital flow to combat (external) death energy, will help to prevent it accumulating within the body with age or disease?

This would be different to (what I think you’re saying) the idea of filling yourself with it and thereby dodging its effects, more like using it to strengthen the life-force, like resistance training.

Just theories, anyway. :slight_smile:

- { I post long comments btw so if anyone doesn't like lengthy post then please excuse my reply and I'll be on my way.}

I think they all ran screaming in horror when me & Claidheam got busy posting! :o)

3 Likes

Sounds like a lot of work for something u already are… Immortal

I’m already immortal? Explain please.

Pretty simple. Do u believe when u die that u just rot in the ground??? If not then u are immortal.

That’s such a pedestrian form of immortality.

I want to live forever in my same body, eternally progressing skills with my energy system, eternally learning new information with my brain. I want to exist for millenia; the ever-living, God-King Ashton Kerr!

My reign shall be just and supreme.

1 Like

That’s such a pedestrian form of immortality.

I want to live forever in my same body, eternally progressing skills with my energy system, eternally learning new information with my brain. I want to exist for millenia; the ever-living, God-King Ashton Kerr!

My reign shall be just and supreme.[/quote]

Oooh I got yah I completely misunderstood. No I think there is no way out of rotting as Jim Morrison said don’t let me die in an automobile I want to lie in an open field want the snakes to suck my skin want the worms to be my friends want the birds to eat my eyes as here I lie the clouds fly by!!

1 Like

Figure out a way to save your consciousness to a Machine. Then work with scientists to build you a Machine Body. Near Instantaneous Immortality. Theres also the concept of transfering your brain to a fresh young healthy body. I believe they made a recent movie about this except it was rather more a consciousness transfer using a machine.

[quote=“Asmoday, post:11, topic:7103”][quote=“ashtkerr, post:10, topic:7103”]That’s such a pedestrian form of immortality.

I want to live forever in my same body, eternally progressing skills with my energy system, eternally learning new information with my brain. I want to exist for millenia; the ever-living, God-King Ashton Kerr!

My reign shall be just and supreme.[/quote]

Oooh I got yah I completely misunderstood. No I think there is no way out of rotting as Jim Morrison said don’t let me die in an automobile I want to lie in an open field want the snakes to suck my skin want the worms to be my friends want the birds to eat my eyes as here I lie the clouds fly by!![/quote]

I shall point you to literally all of Taoism. They’re entire belief system hinges on the reality of immortality. I believe in a universe without limitation. I shall attain my goal.

Similar idea is seen in the movie the Skeleton Key. Have you ever seen it?

1 Like

No. But will look to find an online version as I like movies like that.

I was thinking of that too. To download your consciousness into a machine but they raises more questions than solving the big problem. Like, for one, if we can do you then machine would have already been doing it because in order to use a device you have to understand it’s programming. A code.

Since having a organic body and processing systems sets up apart from robots and androids, I think if conscious beings are able to transfer consciousness to inanimate objects, there is not difference between AI and human intelligence. coughskynetcough

The second problem with this is that the human consciousness is ‘designed’ to work with the human body construct. Not anything else. All devices we’ve invented as a species are adapted to the human constructs.

Tools for the medium. If you take the human mind out of the body, where are you going to put it? It would have to be something as human as possible otherwise we’ll develop psychotic trauma from sensory deprivation. Just like people who experience phantom pains.

One could say reincarnation dispells this theory, but then, reincarnation always proves it. Since a form of consciousness can change host bodies for a certain life span but not the ability to think, the program of human consciousness must be reprogrammed in order to fit the body. Hence why you don’t see wildlife with the human learning capacity. You can change body but you’ll lose SOMETHING human in the process.

So finding a loophole in our contract with Death seems natural.

[quote=“Lady Eva, post:6, topic:7103”]And another thing, I’ve been told several times that you mustn’t be sexual with deceased shades, well I had a relationship with one for several months and it had no ill effects, he used to draw energy from me but I already knew how to backfill that, so it wasn’t a problem.

If you’re energetically whole/can effectively cleanse and flush any major spiritual wounds/wounds in your energy body - if you can draw down or backfill energy from Source or something - if you don’t seem like the type to faint easily, and have a lot of physical engagement with the world, then I think it’s possible to learn to flush out anything negative from prolonged contact with death energies.[/quote]

This is what I’m trying to prove. The principles of resistance training are the same principles are adaption applied in survival just different names. A ‘warm-up set’ is synonymous with Preparatory Immersion of both magick and in Biology when a organism takes in something (let’s say poison) to become immune to in the future.

The entity you was in contact with radiated the vibration of the Death Current. You find a means to fill in the void the DC established with you by some kind of vampirism/energy work from Source.

Much in the same way you touch your car to ground yourself to it before pumping gas to prevent a static spark explosion, you ground yourself back to the Life Current so Death’s affects won’t stick. And seeing as it wasn’t TOO much you was involved in it was something you could bounce back from. It all just seems like another binary play between two forces to me.

I'm not sure how this relates to the subject of immortality, but possibly being able to command that vital flow to combat (external) death energy, will help to prevent it accumulating within the body with age or disease?

I wouldn’t think so. Illness and Disease aren’t actually problems that happen naturally. What we consider ‘sick’ is just our bodies natural reaction to outside forces. From Polio to the Plague, it’s not the disease that kills us but our own bodies trying to fight the disease that does. Diseases, Bacteria and Virus can’t be avoided as long as we are multi-cellular organisms.

I just suppose that after awhile you just get used to the symptoms the same way people come immune to certain strands of cold viruses after their body makes anti-bodies. Much in the same way as a Vampire getting a STD via blood sucking. It’s stuck with the disease and the only thing the Vampire can do is just find way to cope (taking energy from other things).

Skeleton Key’s well worth watching, one of my favourite movies. :slight_smile:

It seems (this crosses over to the recent posts about genetics) that the spirit chooses a genetic combination where it can most fully express itself, based on core needs and drives, and sometimes that means a less-than-ideal birth family, but we usually get the talents we need.

The fact some of us have screwy parents or families seems to me, from observation, to be due to the suppression of natural psychic ability throughout the ages, I know in my own family the more gifted people tended to drink (and/or work) themselves to death rather than explore the unknown, and possibly “unholy” (or “crazy”) worlds they knew perfectly well existed.

This is a self-perpetuating and self-inflicted form of oppression, not unlike that perpetrated against women in some nations, where it’s the grandmothers who mutilate the bodies of their granddaughters, or beat them to death for being “unchaste,” because they’ve totally internalised a suppressive value system.

My experiences so far seem to show that:

  1. willed possession will eventually revert back to the original personality, because that’s what the bio-electric machine of the body can project best, and possessions that don’t fade or end will often destroy the mind and maybe even the body - like a literal loose cannon wrecking a ship.

For this reason, attempting to reincarnate within the line of your own descendents (people who share a significant amount of compatible DNA) seems the most viable way to ensure continuation of your selfhood, where certain personality traits and natural talents are provided within the DNA bundle, to be switched on or off at will.

I believe I retained a lot of programming from my own past, but I don’t like talking about that because I don’t want to claim “special snowflake” status, and I don’t think ANY human is ever just completely “normal” or mundane - we ALL have the ability to excel the physical, if we put in the work and a leap of faith.

  1. the reason we manifest the form of a spirit (especially a “demon”) we expect to see during evocation, is that we’re transmitters, or projectors, from the non-physical realms into the physical - we place our “Belial is a scary bad hell-demon” lens on, project him forth, and he appears in a malevolent form, whereas if we place our “Belial is a wise and powerful ancient spirit” we get the more mellow, likeable, mentoring aspect of him.

IF I’m correct - and this is only my current theory - then the Xian magicians who aligned the demons to various faults within man (that had to be mastered and overcome) were cunning bastards, whho were simultaneously limiting these amazing ancient gods to the lowest qualities of primate minds, and yet also linking them to aspects of ourselves (like greed and lust) that are necessary parts of our survival drive, so we’d feel the draw to them, and call them again and again in these limiting psychic/spiritual “cages” comprised of our own weaknesses.

It’s like me saying, I’ll feed you, but only if you dress in a puppy-suit and whine and beg for the food. It’s kinda fucked up.

But this might be why you’d need to choose your subject for forced reincarnation with care, you don’t want to be rejected out the body-mind like a transplanted organ!

And, there are a lot of reports of transplant recipients taking on traits of the donors, so there does seem to be an unbreakable link between the manifest body and the personality of the mind within it…

That’s some of the ideas I have kicking round, they’re only working theories and could be incomplete or plain wrong, but my experiences with Varnaxis recently have shown me the power of genetics, even across a non-linear link (I’m not directly descended from him, we branched off a way back) - Buné has been a good teacher so far about this, and I’ve only scratched the surface.

None of this goes against the idea of simple physical immortality in an un-ageing body, of course - I have a strong feeling some people have already accomplished this, I kind of covered all that rambling on about the “first person” to discover flight, fire, etc.

I wonder what it would mean to anyone here who has that as their goal, if they felt they had definitive proof someone had?

It should, theoretically, do for this pursuit what Roger Bannister’s famed 4-minute mile did, in terms of breaking the barrier and helping others to progress faster than before.

So, maybe seeking out people like that (astrally) would be worthwhile? Just a thought. :slight_smile:

[quote=“Lady Eva, post:17, topic:7103”]Skeleton Key’s well worth watching, one of my favourite movies. :slight_smile:

It seems (this crosses over to the recent posts about genetics) that the spirit chooses a genetic combination where it can most fully express itself, based on core needs and drives, and sometimes that means a less-than-ideal birth family, but we usually get the talents we need.

The fact some of us have screwy parents or families seems to me, from observation, to be due to the suppression of natural psychic ability throughout the ages, I know in my own family the more gifted people tended to drink (and/or work) themselves to death rather than explore the unknown, and possibly “unholy” (or “crazy”) worlds they knew perfectly well existed.

This is a self-perpetuating and self-inflicted form of oppression, not unlike that perpetrated against women in some nations, where it’s the grandmothers who mutilate the bodies of their granddaughters, or beat them to death for being “unchaste,” because they’ve totally internalised a suppressive value system.

My experiences so far seem to show that:

  1. willed possession will eventually revert back to the original personality, because that’s what the bio-electric machine of the body can project best, and possessions that don’t fade or end will often destroy the mind and maybe even the body - like a literal loose cannon wrecking a ship.

For this reason, attempting to reincarnate within the line of your own descendents (people who share a significant amount of compatible DNA) seems the most viable way to ensure continuation of your selfhood, where certain personality traits and natural talents are provided within the DNA bundle, to be switched on or off at will.

I believe I retained a lot of programming from my own past, but I don’t like talking about that because I don’t want to claim “special snowflake” status, and I don’t think ANY human is ever just completely “normal” or mundane - we ALL have the ability to excel the physical, if we put in the work and a leap of faith.

  1. the reason we manifest the form of a spirit (especially a “demon”) we expect to see during evocation, is that we’re transmitters, or projectors, from the non-physical realms into the physical - we place our “Belial is a scary bad hell-demon” lens on, project him forth, and he appears in a malevolent form, whereas if we place our “Belial is a wise and powerful ancient spirit” we get the more mellow, likeable, mentoring aspect of him.

IF I’m correct - and this is only my current theory - then the Xian magicians who aligned the demons to various faults within man (that had to be mastered and overcome) were cunning bastards, whho were simultaneously limiting these amazing ancient gods to the lowest qualities of primate minds, and yet also linking them to aspects of ourselves (like greed and lust) that are necessary parts of our survival drive, so we’d feel the draw to them, and call them again and again in these limiting psychic/spiritual “cages” comprised of our own weaknesses.

It’s like me saying, I’ll feed you, but only if you dress in a puppy-suit and whine and beg for the food. It’s kinda fucked up.

But this might be why you’d need to choose your subject for forced reincarnation with care, you don’t want to be rejected out the body-mind like a transplanted organ!

And, there are a lot of reports of transplant recipients taking on traits of the donors, so there does seem to be an unbreakable link between the manifest body and the personality of the mind within it…

That’s some of the ideas I have kicking round, they’re only working theories and could be incomplete or plain wrong, but my experiences with Varnaxis recently have shown me the power of genetics, even across a non-linear link (I’m not directly descended from him, we branched off a way back) - Buné has been a good teacher so far about this, and I’ve only scratched the surface.

None of this goes against the idea of simple physical immortality in an un-ageing body, of course - I have a strong feeling some people have already accomplished this, I kind of covered all that rambling on about the “first person” to discover flight, fire, etc.

I wonder what it would mean to anyone here who has that as their goal, if they felt they had definitive proof someone had?

It should, theoretically, do for this pursuit what Roger Bannister’s famed 4-minute mile did, in terms of breaking the barrier and helping others to progress faster than before.

So, maybe seeking out people like that (astrally) would be worthwhile? Just a thought. :)[/quote]

I rewatched Skeleton Key last night, great movie.

And about finding immortals on the Astral, earlier this month I posted the experience of the five immortals appearing to me, etc. I need more practice before I can just chase them back down.

I have had enough experiences all confirming my one goal, not to mention all the divination that I’ve done. All of it affirmative. Like, for example, I did the Faustian Cross Spread and both results were an achievement of immortality. Which means that I cannot help but attain my goal.

I am not particularly worried.

ashtkerr - yes, after I posted my novel :o) I remembered that, cool stuff!

But the viral DNA would replicate endlessly within our cells if the immune system didn’t go in to kill the infected cells, and hostile bacteria would “spoil” us (like spoiled milk - or decomposing corpses) if we didn’t have living defences, so we do need that response, they can’t co-exist amicably with us without being at least kept in check.

The ones that do, such as the herpes family of viruses (chicken pox, shingles, as well as cold sores and STD-versions) do so by laying quiescent most of the time, usually only infecting us in non-“life critical” systems, and not attempting to take over the whole show.

The worst viruses, like influenzas, HIV, and the killer bacteria like Hansen’s disease (leprosy) and TB get overly greedy and kill their host, that’s why they’re usually highly infectious - they need to get passed on fast before they wipe out the living system they’re over-running and destroying.

We also have plenty of benevolent bacteria that we need, in our gut for example, and possibly viruses, I know slightly less about that - but a recent Monday Post had a report about basically unknown life-forms, micro-organisms that fit no known classification and that exist peaceably in the human gut, so there’s a definite “work with us, or gtfo” divide, and (as with clostridium, e. coli and even yeasts) sometimes it’s location and numbers that turn a vital part of our internal menagerie into something deadly.

That said, it seems (the “hygeine hypothesis” thing) that people who are exposed to hostile infectious challenges that are manageable, like children in homes with pets, or raised on farms, have less allergies (which can also be life-threatening), and while parasites like worms aren’t usually a good thing, there also seems to be a correlation between freedom from parasites and an increase in certain auto-immune disorders.

So, the immune system does seem a bit like a roid-raging night-club bouncer, who starts picking fights for no reason, if he doesn’t get into a good rumble with a real infection now and again…

Maybe we need, an immune system that gets regular challenges, but also has enough evidence on file to create anti-bodies and recognise (and kill) any cells that get infected, I read that HIV can “hide out” in gut cells for example, evading treatments of various kinds, and then start to aggressively reproduce when the immune system is weakened through some other cause, and the stress/cold sores thing is well known.

In a lot of indigenous shamanic traditions, the shaman becomes infected (literally or, I suspect, often symbolically) with some disease, overcomes it via a prolonged and difficult astral battle, and then emerges able to master it in other people.

i mean, the fact people died like flies from dirty water in the past (and still do in some places) indicates this probably wasn’t totally faultless, but the symbolism probably came from either intuitive understandings, or maybe a rare few who actually mastered this for real, and given that it’s how vaccines work (a weakened version of the disease organism is presented, so the body can kick ass and take names - aka create antibodies) that kind of makes sense.

[quote=“Lady Eva, post:19, topic:7103”]But the viral DNA would replicate endlessly within our cells if the immune system didn’t go in to kill the infected cells, and hostile bacteria would “spoil” us (like spoiled milk - or decomposing corpses) if we didn’t have living defences, so we do need that response, they can’t co-exist amicably with us without being at least kept in check.

The ones that do, such as the herpes family of viruses (chicken pox, shingles, as well as cold sores and STD-versions) do so by laying quiescent most of the time, usually only infecting us in non-“life critical” systems, and not attempting to take over the whole show.

The worst viruses, like influenzas, HIV, and the killer bacteria like Hansen’s disease (leprosy) and TB get overly greedy and kill their host, that’s why they’re usually highly infectious - they need to get passed on fast before they wipe out the living system they’re over-running and destroying.

That said, it seems (the “hygeine hypothesis” thing) that people who are exposed to infectious challenges that are manageable, like children in homes with pets, or raised on farms, have less allergies (which can also be life-threatening), and while parasites like worms aren’t usually a good thing, there also seems to be a correlation between freedom from parasites and an increase in certain auto-immune disorders.

So, the immune system does seem a bit like a roid-raging night-club bouncer, who starts picking fights for no reason, if he doesn’t get into a good rumble with a real infection now and again…

Maybe we need, an immune system that gets regular challenges, but also has enough evidence on file to create anti-bodies and recognise (and kill) any cells that get infected, I read that HIV can “hide out” in gut cells for example, evading treatments of various kinds, and then start to aggressively reproduce when the immune system is weakened through some other cause, and the stress/cold sores thing is well known.

In a lot of indigenous shamanic traditions, the shaman becomes infected (literally or, I suspect, often symbolically) with some disease, overcomes it via a prolonged and difficult astral battle, and then emerges able to master it in other people.

i mean, the fact people died like flies from dirty water in the past (and still do in some places) indicates this probably wasn’t totally faultless, but the symbolism probably came from either intuitive understandings, or maybe a rare few who actually mastered this for real, and given that it’s how vaccines work (a weakened version of the disease organism is presented, so the body can kick ass and take names - aka create antibodies) that kind of makes sense.[/quote]

Well this is why an immortal would have to have incredible healing abilities, on the realm of Jesus. Or else, someone who achieved a state of just not dying would die around 600-700 years old, because statistically, that is the maximum statistical chance that you die from slipping in the shower or getting ran over by a drunk driver.