So I never really cared if people used curses or baneful magick. For a while, I had the belief that in the person mind they should come first. So if you had to do a curse to kill or remove someone from your life it’s alright. Same thing I guess with murder like if someone is going against your life you should remove them but then I got to thinking. I’m discussed buy unnecessary murder, like genocide because of a belief seems stupid.
Also child murder or abuse, for example, if you saw what happen in Rome Californa with the 13 children.
Or if you ever heard of the Newmaker case.
All of that seems completely awful and I believe most people, even with being alright with baneful magick, would agree its awful… So where do we draw the line?
If we say it’s up to what another believes, then in a way are we supporting this? Is it different depending on if its done by magick or actually physically?
I guess you could argue you shouldn’t do something if it doesn’t benefit you but if in their minds it benefits them then would we as black magicians condone this behavior?
We are all about being free and powerful which is good and I agree with but then why do I find things like that appalling? Does it make me weaker? Or are the people who are okay with that in any way just terrible?
I’m not saying I think everyone who is “Its the practitioners or person choice so it’s up to them” is bad or anything (What is bad really?) I just want to pose the questions. If We all ran the world publically how would we deal with these cases? It was just on my mind and wanted to see others views.
Honestly I don’t like hurting people unless I have too anytime I put a curse on someone I feel guilty and take it off when I see it taking effect and hurting people.
I can see that Like I get where you’re coming from but for me at least I can’t read an article on people doing that to children or anyone for that matter and not get angry.
I always ask if there is such thing as evil because its subjective but seeing something like that, where there is no reason they had to do that (hell it backfired in their favor) makes me think there needs to be a word for it.
Then I think back to baneful magick which I’m fine with, and wondering where is our limit? maybe its different for everyone but if for some reason, black magicians came out and ruled a nation or world could everyone really only go by their own limit?
Unlimited power is nice and all but at least in my head this poses a delima
Again, Its more of a thinking post. I don’t know exactly where I stand either. I just thought a philosophical debate would be nice. I’m going to try and keep this intellectual and nice so If anything gets out of hand and someone doesn’t give support on why they believe something I’ll go out of the way to ignore it.
TBH I don’t think the people I’ve met on this forum would go so far as child torture or physical rape but if we always say it’s up to the magician’s preference that causes more problems I think. A lot of people I know shame the Christian god for his lies, all his deaths, and more and if that’s so we should never go to his level (I know not everyone hates him or hates him for what I mentioned). meaning if we do… we should be just as hated (another thought for some)
Again this is not to shame or anger anyone, Its more for me to figure out what I think with your help and maybe helping some others in thje process
Yes, if you believe that moral relativity is real, then in a way you cannot be mad with these people. Which is why I feel moral relativity is absolute horseshit. Moral, as in good or evil, does not really exist, but morality in the context of causing destruction or not most certainly does.
I draw the line with the Strega code: do not harm the innocent.
No. Never. It means you are not a psychopathic piece of shit, and IMO that is a good thing. Cheers!
Yes, I never believed in good nor evil. I thought that was all in your head but if we still got disgusted by these acts there had to be terms for it.
Your destruction or non-destruction take on Morality makes sense.
Who cares? If everything is so subjective to those types, then so is your opinion. My thoughts? Who gives a damn about anyone who would take offense to the condemnation of such behavior? Fuck them and the horse they rode in on.
As someone who believes the world is largely amoral, I don’t condone unnecessary damage to any life form that can be avoided (some life needs to be sacrificed for food, though). Technically there’s no limit except any you put on yourself (I hesitate to say “morality” or “ethics” to describe this since that’s not always a motivation to rationalize these things, and some people believe morality doesn’t exist and ethics can be nullified). However there is a tendency to avoid suffering that is there for a good reason. Necessary damage might need to happen at some point, though, and that’s where things like warrior’s codes and personal rules come in.
Personally I don’t harm anyone unless they harm me, harm someone I care about, threaten me profusely, or is otherwise bothers me to the point where it would be stalker-like. Thankfully very few situations in my life called for retaliation.
To clarify, is the destructive behavior directed towards an innocent bereft of personal accountability? Then that is immoral to me. Everything else is fair game, at one’s own personal risk.
Each has their own will and their own meaning to decide. In the end things like good and evil are subjective to the individual view. Morals and ethics are whatever view a person decides to adopt and are subject to change on the whimsy and nature of the individual. To condone the will of an individual that is aware is to acknowledge them as potentially an equal nothing more as to the majority of other people unless it crosses some line you hold to a point where you must act I find it is like being concerned with the happenings of insects. So long as it is not infringing on your sensibilities why bother yourself with the happenings of those who have yet to become more than machines repeating the same cycle of programs. When they become self-aware they tend to change and evolve but this rarely just happens. So it is accurate to say that in terms of a single life or even a set of incarnations people do not change from their base nature in any significant fashion and it is only the minute changes over great expanses of time that find the combination to awaken ones awareness of the deeper nature of reality.
Ultimately when all is eternal all that happens is a change in state and being. If I destroy someone I change their state to one more suiting for my desires for them. In time they might recover or take off on a different path of evolution as a result or they will be used up as a constituent of other beings where they might unlock the awareness of others.
My limits are my own and subject to change at my desire and that is sufficient for me. If there is trouble somewhere that infringes on my sensibilities at the time I will deal with it in a manner I see fitting and the same could be said for any other individual from their point of view even if not directly phrased as such.
Thank you for sharing. I just see a lot of people talk about how they don’t care what they effect or who they do but then I see some of those same people get disgusted by the cases I showed above which seems contradictory. Maybe they meant something different but just didn’t elaborate but if you going to have a belief like “You can do what you want” you have to stay at least somewhat true to that statement. If not tweak it in a way that makes sense and does not cause a logical falousy which happens.
Where does a person’s personal accountability enter that equation? In other words, where does this moral ambiguity/subjectivity enter in with people who are retarded, insane, or little kids? This is why I say moral relativity is absolute horseshit.
I do see that its all subjective as it should be but that’s only in our minds. I mean by everything like morals is subjective but is that how it works in the real world? It’s all great for us to have our own moral code but thats not how the physical world or in my eyes most world work.
Just because something is okay in our head, is it really okay?
It goes that way with love magick too, IMO. Someone recently pointed out that it is a blatant contradiction that some folks are okay with magickal attack, but not okay with love magick targeting a specific person. IMO that is a damn good observation, because the two are one in the same.
In the end I like everyone has their own free will and free thought but when you add the action into the equation when you’ve dealt the act its not longer something subjective in a way. Its a physical action in the world. I guess it does depend on the situation like getting revenge on someone who has harmed you but I don’t think its as simple as we make it out to be.
Which is interesting you bring up because I’ve been okay with love magick because I see it as you put in your side too or it doesn’t work out… Maybe that is not the case all the time but I’ve never seen it as wrong… Using it on someone who is still in a relationship or under-aged i see differently of course but that does bring up that point.
Okay cool, which is I think is fine. My only question when do you say they’re not a child anymore? Like is it by law? By what psychology says? or by their ability to rebel,etc?
I’m actually just curious and interested
Yes it is ok unless some other being with the power to change it says otherwise and then it goes to the being with the power to enforce their will. The government for instance might arrest hundreds for a plant and that is ok because that is law and for everyone that says otherwise someone else says it is right. Throughout the whole world and nature you see that in the end certain patterns and cycles are followed. The strongest get their way even if that way to let someone else get their way. There is cause and effect but it does not care who lives or dies, who suffers or who knows pleasure, no more than a rock cares when pushed down a hill. If something wants to enforce a certain law it must have the means to do so and that which is not allowed by nature cannot be possible to exist or committed. Do you care when animals cannibalize their own kind for being weak perhaps as does happen in some species? Likely not really unless you have some emotional stake in it because that is just nature. Everyone is an animal of some level of awareness.
A person’s accountability as above is applied only really when someone holds them accountable and has the strength to see it through or through cause and effect. In terms of those such as the insane it is no different they are following their own nature and likely the insanity is not just a physical matter but one related to their spirit and mind and the same with the retarded or children. The fitting and strong will find a way to survive. This does not just mean physical ability but mental and spiritual strength even if not consciously recognized plays a role in guiding that person and their survival. If they fail well start over having learned some lesson to be ingrained and take a new body or assemble a new form in terms of spiritual damage. Even if this takes centuries the core consciousness remains unmolested even if its attention is redirected or halted along certain aspects of reality or has been melded with others to form new stronger beings. As much as people like to preach the virtues of civilization and law they are still living by the laws of nature and the strong ruling the weak. In this case the strength is often by generations of built up mental chains and institutions but the same principles apply. We as magicians might exist within them but we only follow them to the cursory extent we choose as we ultimately can bend the world to our will and get around the mundane forms of enforcement. Just like there are beings capable of doing the same to us and in time we will become those beings as well.