I was reading this. The guy said the goetic spirits when summoned without protection do stuff like burning houses down, manipulate you and drive some people mentally insane.
How legit is this?
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It all depends on your mindset going into it. I’ve been driven to the brink of Madness, and a little bit beyond by messing with forces that I didn’t fully understand.
However, once I started to internalize my true inner nature, things started to calm down drastically oh, right now, the only negative aspect I’m having to deal with is my own personal apathy towards Humanity as well as myself. And, to a lesser degree, the severe lack of motivation to get things done.
Luckily, I’m a very strong-willed person, so it isn’t that difficult to overcome it.
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I mean… I’ve worked with so many different spirits without doing any of that protection type stuff, and I’ve never had any issues. I agree that if you expect to summon a malevolent force that will stick around after you dismiss it, that’s probably what you’ll get, so just keep your expectations in check and you should be fine
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Everyone’s experiences are different I never use protection and neither banish after! That’s why I don’t listen to others experiences as it affects mine !
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I almost feel like it would be offensive to them. Imagine if someone invited you to their house and there were cameras in every room, and they followed you around with a shotgun everywhere you went. You’d be like… The hell? If you distrust me that deeply, why’d you bring me here?
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So here’s my current working theory on this.
The people who developed the traditional methods approached the process with their own subjective preconceptions and mindset. Even if the occult has some type of objective consistences, the techniques are going to vary a bit based on the philosophies of the people working the system.
Every tool has a purpose, and it benefits you to understand that purpose, and internalize the principles before you ditch it. This was either omitted from the teachings or the creators of the system simply didn’t think of that(I doubt the second one).
Another thing to think about. The mindset that you’re dealing with a force that inherently wants to fuck you up and requires the tools will change how that entity interacts with you. If you think you might get fucked up, then of course you need the protections. If you come at it from the angle of “I’m going to respect you so long as you respect me, and you stick to the parameters I’ve laid out”, then you can strike up a mutual partnership.
Another thing. Demons are likely to expose some of the darker natures of your mind just by being in contact with their energy. Not everyone is willing to confront that. So instead of internalizing that and becoming at peace with themselves they would rather suppress that part of themselves. Psychologically in regard to their own minds and metaphorically by binding the demons.
This has been my wild, speculative rant of the week. Thanks for coming.
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That is Nonsense, the demons love the majority of the humans. Demons are very human and loving they love if are loved and indeed they can be dangerous in certain situations but in such a situation the target wanted it so. They have a FREE WILL and that is excellent.
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Humans tend to see anything that disrupts their comfort zone as “bad.” Sometimes, destruction must proceed creation and if you can ride the wave, things will be better at the end.
Just because you summon a demon, and then your house burns down, doesn’t necessarily correlate to the demon being responsible.
However, sometimes it does. For example, the Christian magician Rufus Opus had his house burned down by Bune. He uses protective circles and the like in his magick, but he had asked Bune for $30,000 and the insurance on his house was the easiest, and quickest, route to the goal so up it went.
Change is disruptive and some people really don’t want change in their lives. Demons will find the quickest route to the goal, and that might entail shaking things up. If the change that was asked for is big, it might very well seem like your life is ruined, especially if the magician asks the demon to make fast changes. That is why gradual steps towards a large goal are always better than a large leap. Most people can’t handle the chaos required for the leap.
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Indeed.
I haven’t even noticed until I evoked Vapula for something. An aspect of my mind (which had always been there in the first place but well concealed from myself) reacted quite violently to it and I spent the whole evening and night after that in a REALLY weird state of mind.
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My contact with demons has been fairly one-sided up to a recent point. Before that point, I would invoke them, exalted them, asked for I would like, but never got an answer or even a definitive contact. After a recent crisis point in my life, my power was increased, and I had real contact with President Marbas (something I’d sought for years).
To the point of the post, I never did the protective circles or the banishings. These felt hostile to me. And, if you expect hostile, you’d probably provoke hostility (in magic and in life, really). I was open, respectful, and when done asked them to go about their business as they will. I never had an ill effect, although it took a LONG time to get a result I could define as definitive.
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I’m fairly new to working with demons myself but I have had more friendly interactions with them than with say the lords of light or angels. Working with dragon magic was by far much more perilous than working with the demonic as most races of dragons are quite proud and take offense easily.
Working with the Seraphim almost got me killed and fairies contrary to popular belief are not all cute and cuddly,but rather master mages that shouldn’t be toyed with.
Elementals like the undine,sylph,gnomes and salamanders are ridiculously dangerous and there aren’t many prevention protocols to put in place to keep them from being total assholes. Which they are at times.
And elves…well those guys are just thieves 
I think what should be remembered here is that magic itself is dangerous if approached in the wrong ways and what we call “demons” aren’t actually demons. Most of the beings in the goetia are ancient gods and goddesses from older religions that were categorized as demons in order to put Christianity in a place of power.
So now you have god level beings that were once worshipped now being treated as though they are evil. If I were one of them I think I’d be a bit touchy about that. However they are still willing to work with humans to advance themselves. In my opinion its the attitude one approaches these beings with that matters.
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Right on! This is my belief as well. “Demons” are just gods that lost the PR war with Jehovah.
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I use banishing rituals and I have never had a demon, angel, or god, get offended or upset at me for doing so.
In my opinion, a banishing ritual is the equivalent of cleaning your home, and setting out a chair (if you use a triangle) for a guest you are inviting over. It’s good manners, and prevents any spirit other than the one you call from showing up uninvited. I’ve enforced circles with the invocation of angels, demons, Hecate, and even the authority of my own Name, without issue from the summoned.
I’ve also evoked without circles and never had any problems. 
However, I should mention that I have a shield that is basically an ever present protective circle (it was thrown up by my Higher Self back when I was a child, and I never knew about it until it was pointed out to me by Belial) and it actually has a geas upon it that prevents any spirit from acting against me while within it (any spirit I evoke essentially manifests within this shield). King Paimon once mentioned he didn’t particularly like the geas, but he has never been upset or offended by the shield itself.
I concur with what has been said above, that it really comes down to the intention behind the action. I don’t cast a circle with the view of protecting myself from what I’m summoning. The circle simply sets up a boundary that separates my ritual area from the mundane world, making it easier to focus, as well as preventing interference from outside energies, be they the psychic impressions of other people or malevolent parasites.
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Ah, I remember that I did a general banishing and cleansing shortly before I invited a spirit (like, it ended ten minutes earlier). My stupid ass simply forgot.
My guest was really irritated at first and only proceeded communications when I told him to be my guest and that the procedure wasn’t aimed at him 
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To use Winterfield’s own words, I am “amused by that article, rather than frustrated, though not entertained.” (always did love that line)
It’s clear that the author of the article has a deep-seated fear of the demons and seems to believe that they have power over him, which they will wield aggressively any opportunity that they get. This alone is probably causing him a lot of problems, though considering the likely methods that he is using, I would not be surprised if the demons responded in this way.
If the author took the time to consider what each part of the ritual structure in DoM actually does, he would see that all the protections that he is afraid of doing without are there, and more besides, but rather than berate and abuse the demon into submission, Winterfield’s method assumes that the demons fall willingly into a hierarchy without needing to be coerced, and that they will help you when called forth with these structures.
I believe the cause of many of the problems people encounter when doing Goetic work is not that the demons are out to get them, but that the operator treats the demons like shit, feeling safe behind their little circle, and is then surprised when the spirits do not respond well to such treatment.
I personally do use the full method with all the “protections” when working with Goetia, but not because I am afraid of the demons. Using this structure connects the demons to their angelic counterparts, and brings additional power to the working. I treat the demons like the grand, majestic beings that they are, and they respond with the same respect for me.
Some people love to prance around and wave about swords and daggers while getting high off incense, but I think of these things like candles. If it helps you get “in the zone,” then by all means do your thing, we all have our magickal preferences (I’ll probably get some cheesy robes at some point, big hood of course), but to assert that the demons are gonna getcha if you don’t wave a sword of lapis painted orange on a 5th Tuesday in Spring is just ridiculous fear-mongering meant to dissuade the seeker.
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I find a circle particularly useful if you don’t have a dedicated space for ritual and have to use a room that also has a mundane use, such as a living room. I remember in one of his books, EA describes how the temperature of the inside of his ritual circle was actually higher than the area around it. His evocation had literally put up a wall of energy that separated the magical from the everyday and he could feel the difference when he passed through the circle.
I find circle castings and banishing rituals kind of fun to perform, actually. The use of visualisation, and energy manipulation is a good warm up for the main ritual and I have a particular fondness for Jason Miller’s Hecate banishing. The spirits that are invoked at the cardinal points are pretty cool (they are neither demons or angels, but spirits loyal to Hecate).
When I was doing my first attempt at the 72 Challenge, I actually had a malevolent spirit try to break my circle. It wasn’t the demon I was summoning, but something else that may or may not have been sent by someone. It interfered with my evocation and the cardinal guardians had to drive it away before I could properly call the demon of the Goetia so, while I don’t always use “protection” the majority of the time, I find that it is good to do so on occasion as a safety measure against, not the summoned, but other things that may not like what you are doing.
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Well. This is funny. Ruining people life comes from something different but there is need for long writing … The worst which can happen is nothing. Ruining life comes step by step when the practitioner starts to expect the result and give up from everything. You start to think only about magic, read in discord or forums and expect “the great richness, power or dead of the enemy”. This creates a problems around you, you try to solve it with magic again. As a result you loose position in school or at work. The real problem is balance between magic and real life.
I suggest you to read carefully reports from people who doesn’t have effect. There is old topic from a lady who tried several love spells on a victim with several demons to compel a guy and take money from him. I can’t find the topic now. Everything ended with that guy took money from her. Her problems comes exactly from focusing of magic. My personal experience: King Paymon and Belial didn’t help me. As a result I removed my offerings , solved the problem on non magical way and use another things. Of course the solution was not best for me but enough good and with some minor benefits. To wait “the rite to give effect” or “to focus” is a bit naive.
Honestly I think it depends on the demon and the person because asking a group of LHP people you’ll get things like “demons love us hurhur” kind of equivalent to Christians who think angels only want what’s best for us. It’s simple to just take in the fact when evoking or invoking you don’t know what’s going to happen regardless of mindset. You go in with no expectations only the mindset of making the evocation or invocation happen that’s all but be prepared for anything. Otherwise all you’re going to get is delusion of what you expect to happen or want to happen be it fear or desire. Demons are their own people and unpredictable like humans and other races. They look out for their own interest unless there’s a bond between you two then there might be a little predictability. This is largely my opinion however, because I see a lot of people treating demons like new agers treat the Galactic federation of light, with a sense of ignorance of what they can do or how they feel, etc.
Personally I don’t use protection circles because most my interactions are by means of etheric projection not evocation or invocation and if I do one of those it’s circle free because to me that’s a sign of respect plus I’m always prepared to defend myself if need be, many think if a demon doesn’t like them their life is over.
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Protection is only needed if you believe the demons are something different than your self. Se demons as extensions of your self, don´t command them, just ask them to do what you wish and say thank you as you would with anyone else that you ask for help.
But that doesn’t mean treat them as extension of yourself that sounds more like a saying they’re basically you and will do it regardless. It’s more like treat them as they’re individuals and not your tools to mooch off of or use however you wish. Respect.
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