Is that all you ever have to add to a conversation?
In case you didn’t notice, you practice voodoo. This is about Haitian Vodoun. Therefor you are completely off topic, because those are two different religions.
This is what happens when someone joins the forum who is barely literate. We have people who barely speak English as a second or third language and they type with better grammar and syntax than you do. They also make more meaningful and related posts too.
One can evoke anything.
I used to harbour your delusions. Now your semantic wordplay and ethical strictures mean nothing to me.
Have you just tried to say it is possible ? Or has Poete tried ? I don't think so.
I took my first steps down the path of Vodou through an encounter at a physical crossroads with Papa Legba in a form of flesh and blood as real as that of any person standing before me in broad daylight. This was no flash of colour in a whisp of smoke. This was no inner vision projected into the world. This was real. Don’t presume to tell me what I have or have not done.
You don't evoke Loas because voodoo is not evocation based.
Non sequitur. And this is bordering on mere semantics.
This a religion, people forgets this point just considering voodoo as a magickal system. Of course you make magick with voodoo but this is fundamentally a religion.
“Magick”. For God’s sake. Does spelling magic with a k make you feel special?
I have little use for your distinctions gleaned from scholars who practised neither “religion” nor “magic” themselves, or if they showed sentiments for the former, did nothign but implicitly scoff at and denigrate the latter. Religion is fundamentally magical, and any that is not is the dead corpse of a distorting monotheism. It is all communion with the sacred powers of life through the divine spirit in man. To invoke the gods is to seek their aid, and to encounter God is to encounter ones own divinity. And if you’re practising magic without this, your magic is, frankly, impotent; if religion, meaningless.
Therefore, you invoke them via possession, you serve them, you pray them, but you don't evoke them. This is not how it works.
Whether or not the Loa possesses someone in and of itself of no import to making him present any more than it is in the evocation of a demon. The Loa is most certainly not called through invoking him into oneself. He may, or may not, choose to ride a person at a service, but that is not necessary to his manifestation.
The Loa comes, after Legba has opened the gate, when he is called at the altar through those sacred devices which belong to him. The veve strewn in cornmeal, the drumming and dance and song, and the call to come and receive his gifts, the food that has been prepared for him and water or rum sprinkled in the salute, the physical bases to tie him to the world in the here and now, these all work to draw the man and the Loa to meet at the crossroads, and they are substantively nothing less than - an evocation.
Learn to read between the lines. You’re paying far too much attention to mere words and outer formalities.
Anyone evoking Lwas like you would do with a demon would make a costly mistake.
And the “traditionalists” say the same thing about evoking demons outside of the book, and the demon worshipers about trying to command them. They are all of them full of it. The paraphernalia existing about a particular Loa are part of the subjective synthesis that aids in his realisation within ones world. His foods, drinks, colours, songs, and signs are all symbolic of his essence that one is incorporating into ones reality. Part of the service is, in substance, not sin semantics, an evocation. It’s just a specific ritual for a specific type of spirit that is going to appear different to the isolated act of evocation of a demon, which would, incidentally, benefit greatly from learning from Vodou. There’s little good reason to evoke a Loa to manifest in a human form because it is completely unnecessary to do so.
If you think I'm telling BS, then go on, take your Circle, any Lwa's veve and try to evoke them. But if I were you I wouldn't try.So you would only put yourself into deep trouble
This is mumbo jumbo that belongs in the same category as the warnings that demons will consume your flesh in the flames of hell if you step outside of the conjuring circle. It is a self-imposed limit. If you fail without it, it’s because you have failed in the subjective synthesis, or failed to realise that the power you have tapped into has its own objective nature that will respond in particular ways to particular cues. Respect is key in working with any spirit.
Not to say that you're not initiated.
You still don’t get it, and I doubt you ever will.
I am Bondye in my divine nature. His will is manifested through the Loa because I manifest my will through the Loa.
End of story.
[quote=“The Eye”]Since you seem so sure about evoking Lwas, then I challenge you to evoke Marinette Bois-Sèch and come back here after to share with us the results with a detailed account.
Since everything can be evoked and since you are Bondye this should not be too difficult nor dangerous.
Besides, it will be a great opportunity for you to prove with facts how ignorant I am when it comes to vodou since this is what you claim.
And most of all you will give a HUGE contribution to this forum doing so.[/quote]
This is not Haitian Voodoo, this is Haitian Vodoun. That would be like me calling what you do, hoodoo.
I really don’t feel like arguing with you when I have the biggest hunch you are a troll. At least, that’s what reading your posts tells me.
“Ive heard that Loa entities are demons and Ive also heard them referred to as the ‘loa Gods’.”
Demon is a term bandied about these days for any entity that is not Christian, and is now a stereotype used broadley by many to denote negative/malignant beings - very inaccurate.
Demon is used loosely with Dark Spirits, and then the Word Dark is misused constantly and becomes misleading… so in all of this mess - its important to reflect and draw upon your own wisdom that comes from silence.
I recall, and qualify first I may not be 100% accurate however EA saying once that the Advantage a Loa has is that they exist on earth.
I suspect are familiar with all the gateways to and from and different dimensions and how they intersect here… they are Masters of this Place they are the Power that stands here - the Authorities, the First Ones Here.
I read all of the above and have not included everything because this thread is too complex.
EA’s mention below says there is more to the realms and advantages that spirits have based on their nature and powerbase - and that Mesopotamian Gods themselves are different to Loa.
[quote=“E.A., post:23, topic:520”]First, Azazel isn’t in the same category as any of the western spirits, but is more aligned with Mesopotamian Gods, IMO.
Second, I have indeed come across a group of entities that are what I would consider THE most powerful, but these are not entities with names and sigils, and they are impossible to evoke. Instead, when you are ready to meet with them, they will simply appear. [/quote]
All of What EA mentions seems to me to relate to a state of reference outside of time and not of this dimension in particular with reference to Time - so in my opinion the soulful call required scars affect the approach to these Beings has no practical effect of mundane tasks nor for combat or superiority or egoistic control over others…
The Beings of EAs meeting seem to be to fullfil a higher purpose on a persons evolution - something far far greater…
The Loa aren’t demons, their closer to being gods though I’m not sure if that would be a 100% accurate term to use for them either. One guy I talked to was of an opinion that they are really powerful nature spirits though I’m not sure if that is accurate either. It would probably be best to ask someone who has a close relationship with them.
They didn’t consider the man of the crossroads as a Loa did they? I always looked at that as more of a blend of African/Christian beliefs. More Conjure/Hoodoo than ATR.
In Brazil, there is this thing of the man of the crossroads. Ellegua / Exu( Esu, Eshu) … associated for some as a Devil that devours its enemies on the crossroads.
It opens the roads to success to the person. So the story about Jazz guys have some sense around this meeting.
It’s not exactly an evocation. I’m not sure what it’s fitting label is, if any, but The Lords of The Crossroads of course can clear paths to success.
Within the Qayinite cult we presence our Lord of The Crossroads of Death for all kinds of things. Success, knowledge, and to bring bane down on enemies. The earth is a place of abundance and prosperity, these spirits being so connected to it can really bring about all possibilities.
Although I’m no expert…I do see a connection or perhaps a similarity is a better way to say it between:
Quimbanda & Palo Mayombe
Haitian Vodoun
Qayinte Tradtion
Regarding these Spirits. I believe in Palo (from researching Dr. Frisvold’s material) that after a Palero dies, he/she may choose to “linger” in order to be called upon by his House to serve.
The point is, is it possible these Spirits are a LOT closer to this Plane than we think?
All do respect to the LOAs. But all evocations are a form of possession. What makes Vodoun so dangerous is while you use barriers like the circle and triangle in a traditional evocation there are none in Vodoun. If anyone tries to to do a evocation in the traditional sense with names of “GOD” and what not bad shit will happen. This is also part of the reason the LOA choose who they work with. What are the LOA ??? What are Angels and Demons and Thought forms and any other thing we can interact with? I have no clue I know that I treat all of them as teachers and with immense respect. There is all this bs flying around trying to pit traditions against one another lol HAHAHA. If you get versed in more then one you can see common symbols and threads. Lets look at it from a Western Abrahamic tradition then… King Solomon left his kingdom shortly after meeting the Ethopian Queen Shiba. Now why would a man who has all the graces of the Abrahamic GOD even be able to be swayed??? I think it is not impossible to think that her “kingdom” stretched into the Kongo and she knew these Divines. The LOA are beings who wish to liberate man and not make him a slave to anyone thing idea person exct. Hence KS kingdom was destroyed… perhaps he was too attached to it. ATR are interesting as well as the symbolism they have and share with other very ancient religions. Not many people will understand this or the need to be humble and have respect for them as well as all other beings you come across. They are not some hooker you can cum in then tell them to get the fuck out… Respect in this path will get you farther then most any other thing.
VR
BP
[quote=“E.A., post:23, topic:520”]First, Azazel isn’t in the same category as any of the western spirits, but is more aligned with Mesopotamian Gods, IMO.
Second, I have indeed come across a group of entities that are what I would consider THE most powerful, but these are not entities with names and sigils, and they are impossible to evoke. Instead, when you are ready to meet with them, they will simply appear.[/quote]
How does one come across these entities , if i may ask? Or what would one need to do in order for them to appear?