What are loa?

Vodoun, Santeria, Palo Mayombe & African Magick
21

I should have clarified that, I meant, special individuals of the dead

it's not a graduation,
Just to add clarification, my use of the term refers to an upgrade, to a higher gradation.
and as to what is 'divine' or not, it is a matter of human perspective.
Agreed. Is Azazel a divine being? I would say yes. I would include all spirits who command power in the other world as being divine beings, including those who were dead and who have risen to greater levels of existence in the afterlife.
it is questionable that a living god should have to die,
I think immortality is within reach, but it is one of the highest achievements, if not the highest. Perhaps reversal of the aging process is more within reach.
22

it is not true that all lwa were once human. some are older than mankind.

23

First, Azazel isn’t in the same category as any of the western spirits, but is more aligned with Mesopotamian Gods, IMO.

Second, I have indeed come across a group of entities that are what I would consider THE most powerful, but these are not entities with names and sigils, and they are impossible to evoke. Instead, when you are ready to meet with them, they will simply appear.

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24

Would that also apply to the other spirits on the Circle of Pacts, Amaymon, Belial, and Abaddon?

Thanks in advance

25

I keep hearing western Demons? And its confusing me, do you mean western magik. I mean demons didn’t originate in America or France or something lol. were they not first worked with in Babylon or Sumeria (spelling)

26

cool cant wait to meet them one day E.A. Sounds like it well be a unforgettable experience. :slight_smile:

27

I intuit many who think or believe they have the true Azazel actually have only a small part of the true Azazel. You need to re-play your magic mates, sorry.

28

Could you enlighten us to who is? I don’t know a whole lot of this stuff. I thought Amaymon, Abaddon, Belial and Azazel where all equal in power or of the same power but different aspects of that power.

29

[quote=“E.A., post:23, topic:520”]First, Azazel isn’t in the same category as any of the western spirits, but is more aligned with Mesopotamian Gods, IMO.

Second, I have indeed come across a group of entities that are what I would consider THE most powerful, but these are not entities with names and sigils, and they are impossible to evoke. Instead, when you are ready to meet with them, they will simply appear.[/quote]

They are beyond good and evil?

30

I would say so. Anything with that much power and knowledge transcends good and evil.

31

[quote=“YogaApprentice, post:29, topic:520”][quote=“E.A., post:23, topic:520”]First, Azazel isn’t in the same category as any of the western spirits, but is more aligned with Mesopotamian Gods, IMO.

Second, I have indeed come across a group of entities that are what I would consider THE most powerful, but these are not entities with names and sigils, and they are impossible to evoke. Instead, when you are ready to meet with them, they will simply appear.[/quote]

They are beyond good and evil?[/quote]

Good and evil are human ideas. These beings he is talking about are beyond duality.

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32

[quote=“YogaApprentice, post:29, topic:520”][quote=“E.A., post:23, topic:520”]First, Azazel isn’t in the same category as any of the western spirits, but is more aligned with Mesopotamian Gods, IMO.

Second, I have indeed come across a group of entities that are what I would consider THE most powerful, but these are not entities with names and sigils, and they are impossible to evoke. Instead, when you are ready to meet with them, they will simply appear.[/quote]

They are beyond good and evil?[/quote]

Actually, he’s talked about this when it was brought up. To be very specific, the species of beings he is talking about is one that doesn’t have a sigil, or a name, they are capable of manifesting immense destruction around them. And, they manifest in the presence of really destructive magickal acts.

In older grimores, they refer to the rituals with a particular spirit attracting spirits of the"firmament", which is an obscure word which translates as “sphere”. If we literally translate that, we could interpret it as attracting spirits within that planetary sphere. But, the nature of the universe is that like attracts like, so you’re going to attract many similar beings, regardless of the relative location they inhabit.

In some grimores a sigil is absent of the spirit, but the name is there. Leading people to need considerably more talent to contact the entity than if they already had a sigil given.

However, these spirits are completely different. They act in the same way normal spirits show up after your rituals, but they only manifest in THE PRESENCE of the absolute destruction which they are incarnate, and can manifest this around them with incredible ease. Once this spirit is summoned, it will be bound to you to eternity like any other, this should prompt you to reconsider even dealing with them. E.A. has said he has met them, and that process is all he would need to evoke them. If my memory serves me he has not summoned them because he doesn’t want to manifest their nature in his life.

Best of Luck,
-Frater Apotheosis

33

He wasn’t talking about the Lwas. At all. That had literally nothing to do with the Lwas.

34

Nope, he was addressing a question had by someone else in regards to EA’s comment on entities that are more powerful than the Lwa that don’t have Seals or Names.

I’m sure you saw him using the quote function to make sure people understood where his response was directed.

35

I think you need to give an accounting of why you’re name is “the eye” and why you chose the eye of providence as an image to represent you, if you choose not to read what I wrote, and just write it off with some bullshit 4 word response, that’s not related to my conversation, and then claim my own post was unrelated to the conversation at hand.

Seriously, just what are you even observing here?

I would consider being nice, but you can at least stop insulting our intelligence, and lying out your ass, and just admitting you were wrong, no one would have even cared if you just did that on your own. But since you didn’t, and you called me personally out, I’m going to call you out on it.

Since I don’t really have to defend myself, as the folks of this fine community I am glad to say I am a part of, have clearly done this for me…I will simply wait here to see if you can admit you are wrong, as a matter of respect to all these people including myself.

36

Anything can be evoked.

37

Like Poete said, anything can be evoked… contribute some substance to the thread ans tell us why you think the Loa can’t be evoked, not just some vague response with no validity behind it.This is not the only thread you have posted in where you come off as an asshole lacking substance. By all means be an asshole if that’s your prerogative, just be an intelligent asshole who brings something to the table.

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38

““What are loas” is the tittle, so if your post does not deal with that question, then you’re off topic. Period.”

You don’t know how a conversation works, do you?

39

Funny and ironic.

By all means be an asshole if that's your prerogative, just be an intelligent asshole who brings something to the table.

Very good point Alkoloid, I’d dare say your a wise man but your hand is on fire.

You don't know how a conversation works, do you?

Seems to be a trend these days.

This is a prime example of what I was talking about when I said I’d hate to see more moderation on this forum. This thread has went all over the place and while technically it wasn’t on topic according to the title it was informative and conducted with intelligence and civility. Was is the key word here, trying to play mod and dictate what is or isn’t off topic is further derailing the thread you insist stays on topic.

Also to reiterate Alkaloid’s point and this isn’t just for The Eye as there are many who do it, enough is enough with this cryptic post shit. I lost my bullshit decoder ring a while back and can’t seem to find it. If you can’t devulge all the details about a ritual, conversation, interaction that’s fine but to pop up only to say “I know but won’t tell due to insert reason” without adding anything else is a waste and only serves to make you somehow feel elite. No one has to like your opinions just clearly state what they are and why you have them.

Hope this is enough of an asshole contribution for you :)

That is the best contribution from an asshole ever!

At least you clearly stated your case instead of a few brief sentences that resemble failed Haiku.

40

[quote=“The Eye”]@Frater Apotheosis :

Why are you agressive ? I did not insult you. Chill out and take a break.

From someone who calls himself “Frater”, I’m surprised of your lack of calm and wisdom. Maybe you’re the one who should change name.

Why do I have an eye as avatar ? To read threads tittle correctly not be off topic.

“What are loas” is the tittle, so if your post does not deal with that question, then you’re off topic. Period.

Have a great day.[/quote]

I would have considered being nice, but you won’t admit you’re full of shit and wrong. I ANSWERED SOMEONE’S QUESTION IF THIS WAS THE LOA, AND EXPLAINED WHY IT WAS NOT, if you cannot find that relevant, you need to leave this place, because you don’t understand basic logic.

I made my post simple enough for a child to understand, but the fact that you responded to it with 4 simple words that were not related to any of it, shows you did not actually process any of the material I wrote…And deserve to be called out on it.

Apparently you’re idea is that instead of having a meaningful discussion, we should just give yes or no answers without any explanation, and throw people right into the fire and let them figure it out for themselves. If that was the case, Koetting wouldn’t have wrote a book on this subject and sold it to people without initiation.

"This thread is dedicated to Loas. Read the title of the thread."
This thread is dedicated to a conversation about what the Loas are, and having a meaningful discussion. And to be honest, the discussion if you cared to note, is about the spiritual practices of the founder of this forum in Haitian Vodoun rather than voodoo. You’ll notice that it says this section of this forum is the topic of “Haitian Vodoun”, and the more broad category “Pathworking Secrets”, you’ll see my post has violated neither of those, while yours has contributed nothing new to our understanding of either.